The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 6

[Tacit Ronin]

I figure it had to be pretty bad, if you have a situation where Joe Truck Driver is willing to help out in a terrorist hit on a stock exchange to help someone they thought was leading a revolution.

Not saying that every poor Gothamite would've been willing to do stuff like that, clearly not, but I got the sense from the movie that there was a lot of resentment bubbling under the surface towards the elites. A lot of that was reflected in Selina's character.

Or maybe he wasn't given any details. Just a hefty some.

But yeah. The youth was looking for work in the sewers. That's pretty bad ****. Not even teenagers in Spain would look for work in the sewers (I kid, I kid).

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Wasn't Joe Truck Driver working for Daggett? Didn't Daggett say that Bane had his contructions crews working 24 hours a day? Didn't Blake find Joe Truck Driver at a construction site where he found the explosives they were mixing in with the cement? And we know Daggett was in on the Stock Exchange hit and probably lent Joe Truck Driver to look like an innocent obstacle to the Cops by blocking them off with his truck.

Oh yeah. Good point. Not any ordinary joe though. He seemed to be fully prepared to take Joe....erm....Blake down.

 

[BatLobster]

Wasn't Joe Truck Driver working for Daggett? Didn't Daggett say that Bane had his contructions crews working 24 hours a day? Didn't Blake find Joe Truck Driver at a construction site where he found the explosives they were mixing in with the cement?

Ah, that's true. I guess I always assumed the truck driver kind of knew Daggett was mixed up in some bad stuff if they were mixing explosives with cement and pouring it all over the city. I'm honestly not sure if Daggett realized they were using his company to rig the city to blow. I tend to assume not, but I guess I can't prove that.

 

[Brother Jack]

Not saying that every poor Gothamite would've been willing to do stuff like that, clearly not, but I got the sense from the movie that there was a lot of resentment bubbling under the surface towards the elites. A lot of that was reflected in Selina's character.

A lot of it had to do with the Dent Act, as well. It being an escalation of the police's enforcement measures, denying criminals parole and all that. The city seemed safer and more at peace but underneath was that resentment that Bane was able to take advantage of. It helped create a clear divide between the privileged and the disenfranchised. Selina is the mouth piece for most of that stuff.

The irony of the historical context behind the social upheaval is that it was inspired by A Tale of Two Cities, a piece of literary fiction that was itself based on the historical French revolution. It really had nothing directly to do with America, despite the movie coming out around the occupy wall street movement and the current political climate the country's in. It's history repeating itself and fiction reflecting it.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

It's all nothing more than a thought experiment for me, so thanks for entertaining it. I see your point about the story running into a loop where someone's always passing the mantle down and it gets repetitive. The ending probably is best left to the imagination. Then again, I always felt the ending to Return of the Jedi was pretty satisfying, and here we are again with Rebel-like characters fighting a new Empire-like organization.

As for the Selina series...I wouldn't be opposed to something like that, but I feel the chances of that happening might be even slimmer than another movie some day. Realistically, Jonah is going to be extremely busy with Westworld for the next decade. The time to launch a show like that would've been right after TDKR, unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.

Nice to see some TDKT fanfiction ideas around here - it's kind of a double-edged sword, all things considered; on the one hand, there's potential to tell some interesting stories with some of the characters in the trilogy, but on the other hand it seems that any sort of continuation of that universe kind of cheapens the trilogy as a whole, as well as its pretty unique nature in today's cinematic landscape.

Anyway, Westworld - gosh, I swear it's probably the best television I've seen since True Detective Season 1, although they're in no way comparable in terms of subject matter. What did you think of Jonah's other series, Person of Interest, BatLobster?

A lot of it had to do with the Dent Act, as well. It being an escalation of the police's enforcement measures, denying criminals parole and all that. The city seemed safer and more at peace but underneath was that resentment that Bane was able to take advantage of. It helped create a clear divide between the privileged and the disenfranchised. Selina is the mouth piece for most of that stuff.

The irony of the historical context behind the social upheaval is that it was inspired by A Tale of Two Cities, a piece of literary fiction that was itself based on the historical French revolution. It really had nothing directly to do with America, despite the movie coming out around the occupy wall street movement and the current political climate the country's in. It's history repeating itself and fiction reflecting it.

Speaking of True Detective

 

[BatLobster]

Nice to see some TDKT fanfiction ideas around here - it's kind of a double-edged sword, all things considered; on the one hand, there's potential to tell some interesting stories with some of the characters in the trilogy, but on the other hand it seems that any sort of continuation of that universe kind of cheapens the trilogy as a whole, as well as its pretty unique nature in today's cinematic landscape.

I completely agree ultimately. That's why I think it should probably be left alone. Not too many of the major trilogies have remained 'just' trilogies at this point. Not Star Wars, not Lord of the Rings. Soon Toy Story will have a fourth installment. I guess there will always be Back to the Future. Although even had that had an animated series. Honestly, I feel like animation would be the best possible way to play in that sandbox again without watering down the impact of the trilogy. Especially since there's already a bit a precedent for "semi-canon, but not really" with animation in that universe via Gotham Knight.

Anyway, Westworld - gosh, I swear it's probably the best television I've seen since True Detective Season 1, although they're in no way comparable in terms of subject matter. What did you think of Jonah's other series, Person of Interest, BatLobster?

Ditto on Westworld for me, I thoroughly enjoyed the first season and have high hopes for the rest of the series. I actually fell off Person of Interest somewhere in the middle of season 2. I do enjoy the show and want to finish it eventually, but seeing Jonah's talents unleashed with a full blown HBO sci-fi is admittedly more appealing to me than somewhat of a network procedural (albeit a very clever one with a bigger story). I'm sure being the showrunner on PoI helped prepare him for the even more ambitious undertaking of something like WW though. I'll get around to finishing it at some point.

 

[Slade W]

Random question, but where do posters here think Geoff Johns ranks amongst the best comic book writers of the last 10-20 years?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Random question, but where do posters here think Geoff Johns ranks amongst the best comic book writers if the last 10-20 years?

Never gave much thought to that, honestly.
Last decade he was potential candidate for top 5.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Same reason why Snyder is a divine visionary, or Ben Affleck supposedly being a great director (rather than just good). They are attached to the DCEU. So their stats have gone up for the time being.

Even at his best Geoff Johns was merely good.

 

[Slade W]

Never gave much thought to that, honestly.
Last decade he was potential candidate for top 5.

Same reason why Snyder is a divine visionary, or Ben Affleck supposedly being a great director (rather than just good). They are attached to the DCEU. So their stats have gone up for the time being.

Even at his best Geoff Johns was merely good.

If it isn't too much trouble, would you mind listing some writers from the last 10-20 years that you consider to have been better than him. I agree that fans of the DCEU are making him out to be better than he actually is due to his involvement with the movies.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Morrison, Moore, Snyder, Waid, Bendis (at least in the 00's), Ennis, Whedon, Ellis, Willingham, Vaughan, Brubaker, Fraction etc.

 

[Slade W]

Thanks. I like Scott Snyder's work a lot, but I still think it is too early to put him ahead of Johns, even if I enjoy his work so far more than anything Johns has done.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

He doesn't have a run as prolific as Johns' GL, but he is a better writer by a long shot. His use of monologue, dialogue, the use of panels to tell a story far surpasses Johns.

Johns is achingly boilerplate. Nothing extraordinary about him about anything.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

If it isn't too much trouble, would you mind listing some writers from the last 10-20 years that you consider to have been better than him. I agree that fans of the DCEU are making him out to be better than he actually is due to his involvement with the movies.

I mostly associated him with how much I enjoy his work on Wally West.

Morrison, Moore, Snyder, Waid, Bendis (at least in the 00's), Ennis, Whedon, Ellis, Willingham, Vaughan, Brubaker, Fraction etc.

Of the etc list I'll dig Busiek, David, and Straczynski.
Two of them made somewhat disappointing work on Superman.

 

[Slade W]

Would posters here rank Jeph Loeb higher than Geoff Johns?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Nope.

 

[Ryan]

I actually was thinking about the whole 'dupe' thing the other day and thought how much more interesting (and perhaps prophetic)I would have found the film had they stuck with that idea. Its a personal choice, but I find the whole 'rich being ripped from their decadent nests' more interesting than the threat of a fully primed neutron bomb that decays over months.

 

[StarWars]

 

[Awest66]

I actually was thinking about the whole 'dupe' thing the other day and thought how much more interesting (and perhaps prophetic)I would have found the film had they stuck with that idea. Its a personal choice, but I find the whole 'rich being ripped from their decadent nests' more interesting than the threat of a fully primed neutron bomb that decays over months.

How would you keep the military from intervening in the situation without the bomb then?

 

[Brother Jack]

The idea of the nuke and the subterfuge regarding Bane's intentions and Gotham's fate were all of a piece with the other two films. Both Ra's and the Joker were both out to destroy the city from within, using the people themselves as agents of the destruction. It's not enough just to nuke Gotham from orbit. For their points to be proven the city had to at least appear to have eaten itself alive. That's the thing that would galvanize the rest of the world towards progress in the case of Ra's or, the in the case of Joker, definitively show mankind is beyond saving. But the thing is, for each scenario they're using loaded dice. Ra's sneaks a weaponized hallucinogenic inside, the Joker is constantly lying and flipping the script on people, and Bane's nuke is not only a time bomb but has a trigger held by a conspirator on the inside.

 

[The Joker]

I remember the TDK days when people thought Coleman Reese was going to be The Riddler!

 

[titansupes]

"Mr. Reese... Mysteries?!! The Riddler!!"

Yeah, I remember.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

HYPE AWARDS CEREMONY HAS BEGUNhttp://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=522807

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[Ryan]

How would you keep the military from intervening in the situation without the bomb then?

I don't know to be honest. One of the aspects that I least enjoyed about tdkr was the whole involvement of the neutron bomb, the military and even the president got involved. It all got too big for my liking in a Batman film.

 

[The Joker]

I didn't mind that. One thing I liked about that situation is it had a touch of No Man's Land feel to it with the bombed bridges, the city cut off, and the military staked outside stopping anyone going in or out.