The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 9

[Tacit Ronin]

Edit.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The big elephants in the room are WW and the Aquaman movie in post-production. They can't just reboot. The next few months should be interesting.

I am the Knight is a mod now? Congrats!

Wut you on about matey?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Wow. Never mind. My mouse pointer was over your screen name at the bottom. It makes one a mod temporarily.

 

[shauner111]

If they don't go ahead with a sequel because of how much money it makes, or doesn't make..then that gives Reeves the green light to make a trilogy completely separate from this shared universe. Which would be an even easier sell (I'd imagine) to a talent like Jake Gyllenhaal. Though it would bum out Gal, Jason, Ezra, Ray and Henry who had a great time and bonded over the experience of shooting.

We'll see how much JL makes in the end and where the RT score settles on.

At this point it may be hard to sell another movie titled JUSTICE LEAGUE. What are they going to with villains anyway? Can't do another CGI creation who comes to earth to wipe out humanity, mother boxes. Do audiences give a **** about the post credit scene featuring those characters? No. They should move on.

 

[BatLobster]

Welp, I saw it.

So yeah, this movie manages to portray the heroes as (finally) likeable characters that you wouldn't mind seeing more of...but it really ends up bumming me out that it had to be such a rough, ugly road to get to this point and that the movie that was meant to be a culmination and historic moment for DC feels like such a perfunctory fluff-piece that really has no story to tell beyond what you already knew to expect going in.

What is frustrating is that, for all this movie's behind the scenes woes, a lot of this movie's issues stem directly for story choices in BvS for me. Particularly killing Superman. So in a sense, it may have been partly doomed from the start. But what's frustrating about this movie is that it really doubles down on the whole "wasting the death of Superman" problem by making his return feel so equally unearned and uninteresting. And it may very well be that a lot of that was cut out of/re-arranged to streamline the movie. I just really come back to the feeling that they wrote themselves into one hell of a corner there, and I think Justice League (and BvS) would've been MUCH better off if we had more of an opportunity to see Bruce and Clark have nuanced interactions where they're allies who may not always see eye to eye. Somewhere between "Uber grimdark, Nolan was for sissies!" and "We have jokes too guys, yay!", there is definitely a tonal sweet spot that I think every DC movie besides Wonder Woman missed.

It's very easy for me to fall down a rabbit hole with both this and BvS of what I would've done to fix things, because that's what it comes down to for me. I still a lot of wasted potential here. And yet, there's still some potential. For as much as I think this movie cheapened Superman's return, Cavill finally gets a chance here to prove that he can pull off the classic, charming and warm Superman. And I liked seeing that! I liked the brighter colors on the costume. I want to see more of that in a solo movie, I truly do because Cavill has me convinced now. It's just a shame that it all had to feel so sudden and unearned.

Leaving my problems with MoS aside- even if you leave that movie intact, I still think if they had just allowed Supes to be more of a the fully formed character in a true MoS sequel, it could've gone a very long way in stabilizing the DC brand without convoluting it like they have. Or at the very least, this characterization should have been there in BvS.

Also, I found Elfman's score totally forgettable. Even the use of the classic Bats and Supes themes just had very little impact in the movie, they weren't even mixed that loud. I really think this movie was begging for a big rendition of "What are You Going to Do.." for the Supes stuff, and it's all just forgettable background music. It's like this movie is trying so hard to be inoffensive that they don't want you to feel anything.

My friend had a great line after we walked out, he said "For all the talk of hope in the movie, it's like they gave up on hoping for it to be a good movie." And I have to agree. This movie clearly needed to be delayed, right from the beginning when BvS got the backlash. It needed to be delayed again when Snyder's tragedy happened and they brought on a new director to reshoot a significant chunk of the film. But WB really seemed to want to rush this thing out the door, making the most inoffensive movie possible, and just be done with it.

I'm not even "angry", because truthfully Justice League was never my thing and I always feared a movie version would be a fluffy, forgettable CGI-fest like the one we just got. It's just kind of a bummer when you have low expectations and then it's exactly what you feared. And as a fan of Batman, I do feel kind of bummed that only 5 years removed from Nolan's trilogy, the character has already reached a point where the bar is being lowered back to "hey, it wasn't a complete trainwreck!" And yeah, Affleck seemed to be on autopilot here. Honestly, I can't blame him. He wasn't given an awful lot to chew on here.

Blegh.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It looks like it's finally dawning on people that Snyder's toxic take on the genre is turning off people. I mean, we knew that. But it seems many didn't truly get it till now. People watch superheroes to be inspired. Not be psychopaths.

 

[BatLobster]

Honestly, Snyder directed enough of this film that I think it's only fair to give him some credit for taking in the feedback and notes and taking the characters in a brighter direction. This movie goes out of its way to try and make them likable (I wouldn't say it manages to earn "inspiring" too often).

The problem lies more at WB's feet IMO, because they're the ones who entrusted him to set up this whole universe and let everything ride on BvS when they ALREADY KNEW he had a very divisive take on Superman. The moment BvS came out, JL was pretty much irrevocably f***ed IMO, because no matter how much you try to course correct, you're still tied to a bunch of the prior highly divisive storytelling decisions.

It's the same reason I don't really blame Danny Elfman for bringing back the Batman theme when I think at the end of the day it was kind of inappropriate in the movie. Whedon clearly hired Elfman because he wanted that stuff, so Elfman did his thing. Of course Elfman was gonna do that, he's doing the job he was hired to do.

Same with Snyder. WB threw hundreds of millions of dollars at him, knowing his track record and let him do his thing, thinking "grimdark" was going to be enough to continue Nolan's legacy. You get what you get.

 

[shauner111]

What did you think of the Wayne characterization and Ben's performance Batlobster?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

i wana no 2

 

[BatLobster]

What did you think of the Wayne characterization and Ben's performance Batlobster?

It was...fine?

It's weird, I probably like the more characterization in JL more, but Affleck's performance in BvS more. The thing is his characterization is fine, but he really doesn't have anything interesting to do in the story. It felt like both the character and the actor were kinda in cruise control. And the performance did feel a bit uneven to me due to the reshoots.

There is definitely one Whedon joke that probably will be over the line for a lot of Bat-fans. I wasn't a huge fan of it either.

 

[StarLord]

Did anyone here see it in IMAX? Apparently Henry's face is even worse on it.

Like staring into the ''uncanny valley abyss'' as someone said on Twitter.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Wow. Never mind. My mouse pointer was over your screen name at the bottom. It makes one a mod temporarily.

That happened to me a lot.

 

[titansupes]

It was...fine?

It's weird, I probably like the more characterization in JL more, but Affleck's performance in BvS more. The thing is his characterization is fine, but he really doesn't have anything interesting to do in the story. It felt like both the character and the actor were kinda in cruise control. And the performance did feel a bit uneven to me due to the reshoots.

There is definitely one Whedon joke that probably will be over the line for a lot of Bat-fans. I wasn't a huge fan of it either.

I agree with the bolded. In JL, Affleck as Bruce is clearly on autopilot, but he's fine. He does what he has to do. As Batman, though? I really think he's the worst since Clooney. He's not giving it anything at all, except for a couple of fleeting moments. He doesn't talk or walk or emote like Batman-- Just Ben Affleck trying to get through the days shoot and go home.

 

[Penguin]

Man, it’s been a while since I’ve been here.

A close friend of mine said the movie was absolute rubbish, and judging from the reviews that have been made, it certainly seems that they’ve released another train wreck of a film.

 

[Kane52630]

Spoiler

SUPERMAN: ''Do you bleed?''

BATMAN: ''Oh yeah, something is definitely bleeding''

Yikes!

That line was so bad that it was actually really funny. That was the only scene I enjoyed him in.

 

[JackWhite]

Wait, the rumor is Jake might replace Ben as Batman?

My heart hurts at how freaking amazing that would be.

 

[The Chris]

I agree with the bolded. In JL, Affleck as Bruce is clearly on autopilot, but he's fine. He does what he has to do. As Batman, though? I really think he's the worst since Clooney. He's not giving it anything at all, except for a couple of fleeting moments. He doesn't talk or walk or emote like Batman-- Just Ben Affleck trying to get through the days shoot and go home.

Yeah. I don't even think I saw Bruce at all here. Just Ben. I personally find his Batman the most unlikable so i find myself rooting for others against him sometimes, which shocks me considering Batman is my favorite superhero period.

 

[Greens]

Honestly, Snyder directed enough of this film that I think it's only fair to give him some credit for taking in the feedback and notes and taking the characters in a brighter direction. This movie goes out of its way to try and make them likable (I wouldn't say it manages to earn "inspiring" too often).

The problem lies more at WB's feet IMO, because they're the ones who entrusted him to set up this whole universe and let everything ride on BvS when they ALREADY KNEW he had a very divisive take on Superman. The moment BvS came out, JL was pretty much irrevocably f***ed IMO, because no matter how much you try to course correct, you're still tied to a bunch of the prior highly divisive storytelling decisions.

It's the same reason I don't really blame Danny Elfman for bringing back the Batman theme when I think at the end of the day it was kind of inappropriate in the movie. Whedon clearly hired Elfman because he wanted that stuff, so Elfman did his thing. Of course Elfman was gonna do that, he's doing the job he was hired to do.

Same with Snyder. WB threw hundreds of millions of dollars at him, knowing his track record and let him do his thing, thinking "grimdark" was going to be enough to continue Nolan's legacy. You get what you get.

Agreed.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Spoiler

SUPERMAN: ''Do you bleed?''

BATMAN: ''Oh yeah, something is definitely bleeding''

Yikes!

I laughed at it

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

It just didn't feel very Batman-like to me. The DCAU/Conroy Bats used humour at times in Justice League/JLU, but it was always incredibly dry and sardonic. He was never used to hit a beat... I half expected them to put in a laugh track at that point.

Plus, Cavill's delivery was just terrible.

Also, I wasn't all that impressed with the Bat-suit/cowl at times. It was far TOO bulky.

 

[Kane52630]

Also, I wasn't all that impressed with the Bat-suit/cowl at times. It was far TOO bulky.

 

[BatLobster]

[YT]39L513eKa7Y[/YT]

I really need a 4k TV/player. I'll have to see some side by sides to confirm whether or not those are new transfers of BB/TDK, but they look damn good to my eye. Those deep blacks look fantastic. And Rises....bah gawd almighty it looks good.

Kinda weird that they wouldn't have the promotion uploaded in 4k though.

 

[The Chris]

Good lord i still love Nolan. That video gave me a massive high. I can't wait to own Dunkirk and i really miss the days of the trilogy.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah man. Just watching that montage alone was kind of a nice chaser for this Justice League bummer I'm feeling and the overall state of DC.

I think the thing that gets me the most is Nolan steered us so far away from the bloated CGI-fueled action that plagues most blockbusters these days, which is a big part of what made those films so refreshing. The clips of TDKT in there blended in seamlessly well with all his other non-superhero films, and they all look fantastic. They're worlds you can believe in.

It honestly bums me out that you can have a movie with something as boring and artificial as Steppenwolf as your main villain, and a good amount of fans are still going to champion your movie because there was enough fan service in there. The only thing I can say for Justice League is that it's perfectly harmless if you think of it as a kid's film and I'm sure families will be able to enjoy it together. Though I'd still argue that kids deserve better. Even when I was 9, I still knew there was something off about Batman Forever. I watched the crap out of it, but I still enough to know that they intentionally made it "kiddier".

Also I think I've come to the conclusion that Batman Forever > Justice League. At least Forever has somewhat of a story to tell, and a (admittedly loud and annoying) personality.

What falls is fallen indeed.

 

[shauner111]

That video gave me a *****. Can't wait to see Dunkirk at home. I heard its being re-released in IMAX on December 1st. For an awards push.