BvS Ben Affleck IS Batman - - - - - - - - Part 35

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We are discussing opinions, no? I'm just asking for reasoning as to why you came to your opinion.

Are we all supposed to agree? This is the entertaining part of sharing these opinions. No one is taking your opinion away from you.

Don't be so soft. Just explain yourself well to shut up my difference in opinion. Convince me to see your side.

Thus a discussion board.

Use your words. Articulate yourself. Don't be like Zach Snyder in interviews.

Your response was extremely childish. You need to learn some respect.

I came to my opinion simply because I liked Kilmer's performance. I don't think there's anything more to elaborate on at all.
 
Your response was extremely childish. You need to learn some respect.

I came to my opinion simply because I liked Kilmer's performance. I don't think there's anything more to elaborate on at all.
How was my response childish? In fact I was just being sarcastic and funny to tell you to be more adult like and discuss or articulate your opinion. We weren't discussing if you liked it. I said in response to you how did Kilmer "nail" Batman. And then gave you why I feel he didn't with actual reasons.
 
Favorite Batman Forever moments were the deleted scenes.
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We are discussing opinions, no? I'm just asking for reasoning as to why you came to your opinion.

Are we all supposed to agree? This is the entertaining part of sharing these opinions. No one is taking your opinion away from you.

Don't be so soft. Just explain yourself well to shut up my difference in opinion. Convince me to see your side.

Thus a discussion board.

Use your words. Articulate yourself. Don't be like Zach Snyder in interviews.

Oh dear :oldrazz: Take it easy breh.

Anyway, I think most people here simply think that Fleck has great potential to be the best Batman. Sure there might be a few peeps who think he is already the best thing ever, but you should just ignore those as we haven't seen the movie yet so who knows how well Fleck will do.

As for Kilmer, I thought they were going for more of a "superhero, crimefighter" vibe than anything like a "monster". This is appropiate for the character.

His Wayne was aloof, yeah. I would not call him wooden or cardboard cut out. It wasn't a showy performance. He was the straight man in the film. BTW he did have some guilt issues, mostly having to do with the death of the Graysons, and he was as tormented as Bale was over the death of his own parents, I'd say.

I'm not seeing how he was an imitation of Keaton though. Care to elaborate a bit on that?
 
How was my response childish? In fact I was just being sarcastic and funny to tell you to be more adult like and discuss or articulate your opinion. We weren't discussing if you liked it. I said in response to you how did Kilmer "nail" Batman. And then gave you why I feel he didn't with actual reasons.

Bit hard to tell if someone been sarcastic on a forum

I don't get why you nee reasons other than I liked his performance. I don't see what more there is to add at all. I thought he nailed Batman, his performance was good. The voice, the look, especially the scenes when he talked of his parents. There was also some really good stuff left out the film with him aswell.

Point been why would you want to try and convince someone otherwise when it's how you feel about a performance? There's no right or wrong here it's about a personal opinion.
 
If nothing else Kilmer has the best voice IMO. I also think a big part of Keaton's performance was to be somewhat cold and emotionless, in B89 he probably has the least dialogue of any Batman movie to date. So it stands to reason they didn't want Kilmer straying too far from that.

It's all preference though, as I said before, some people really might prefer Affleck's Batman based on aesthetics alone, and that's fine. If we're comparing films than certainly I think there's distinct reasons to say one is better than the other on a technical level. But if someone simply likes a more comic accurate depiction, it's hard to refute that.
 
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This looks like fat Cell from DBZ.
As for Kilmer he is still my favorite Batman and Bruce; I felt Bale was good in BB but he was overshadowed in TDK and never regained any likable personality I in TDKR.
 
Favorite Batman Forever moments were the deleted scenes.
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That's great stuff. Is there a version of the film available that includes those deleted scenes?
 
Batman Forever is a very strange beast, on the outset it has everything that a Batman film should have, the look is the closest we have to a genuine comic book Batman, Kilmer is a great actor that looks the part, and overall it was an entertaining blockbuster (it certainly made a crap load of money) I just think a lot of the hate levied towards it (some deserved, some not so much) is largely because of the doors it opened and what it's lead the franchise to.
 
Batman Forever is a very strange beast, on the outset it has everything that a Batman film should have, the look is the closest we have to a genuine comic book Batman, Kilmer is a great actor that looks the part, and overall it was an entertaining blockbuster (it certainly made a crap load of money) I just think a lot of the hate levied towards it (some deserved, some not so much) is largely because of the doors it opened and what it's lead the franchise to.

It's always been my second favorite of the previous series behind B89. Returns was just too out there for me in a lot of ways, although I've come to appreciate it over the years as a really good Burton movie. It's just not a good Batman movie IMO.

Forever was the perfect way to do a lighter, more campy take without being too ridiculous. If some of the deleted stuff had been included it might've given some fans a pretty definitive interpretation, at least for it's time. I agree that, because of what came after, it's been somewhat underrated.
 
Batman Forever unfortunately fell prey to the past superhero film convention that villains must be camp. I think a lot of studio execs of that time period probably came up during the Silver Age comics and had the Adam West Batman in their head as a template. So they felt that camp villains were what the audience expects and craves. (I.e., they felt the subject matter is based on a comic book, something geared toward for children, after all. It's fanciful, whimsical material, etc.--not something any reasonable adult would want to take seriously.) Even Batman (1989)'s Nicholson Joker, although genuinely chilling at times, still featured many comedic flourishes. It wasn't really until 1998's Blade, followed by X-Men in 2000 that we saw CBMs truly break free of the obligatory corny, camp villain genre convention. The following X-Men films, Spider-Man, and Hellboy solidified this. And Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy cemented it.

Now we tend to look back and want to cringe at camp villains. But let's face it, Jim Carey and Tommy Lee Jones were cringe-worthy as hell in Batman Returns Forever. Just terrible. Interesting, though, that those deleted scenes and Val Kilmer's performance in general reflects a movement toward the more serious dramatic approach to Batman that Nolan ran with full tilt.
 
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Batman Forever unfortunately fell prey to the past superhero film convention that villains must be camp. I think a lot of studio execs of that time period probably came up during the Silver Age comics and had the Adam West Batman in their head as a template. So they felt that camp villains were what the audience expects and craves. (I.e., they felt the subject matter is based on a comic book, something geared toward for children, after all. It's fanciful, whimsical material, etc.--not something any reasonable adult would want to take seriously.) Even Batman (1989)'s Nicholson Joker, although genuinely chilling at times, still featured many comedic flourishes. It wasn't really until 1998's Blade, followed by X-Men in 2000 that we saw CBMs truly break free of the obligatory corny, camp villain genre convention. The following X-Men films, Spider-Man, and Hellboy solidified this. And Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy cemented it.

Now we tend to look back and want to cringe at camp villains. But let's face it, Jim Carey and Tommy Lee Jones were cringe-worthy as hell in Batman Forever. Just terrible. Interesting, though, that those deleted scenes and Val Kilmer's performance in general reflects a movement toward the more serious dramatic approach to Batman that Nolan ran with full tilt.

Corrected...

Anyway Ben Affleck... :oldrazz:
 
Is it weird I'm looking more forward to seeing him as Bruce Wayne than Batman? I think the scene when he first meets Clark as well as his conversations with Alfred have been more appealing than seeing him in the suit, which granted hasn't been much.
 
Not me. After we got Nolan's Bruce Wayne trilogy, I'm ready to see more Batman this time.
 
Is it weird I'm looking more forward to seeing him as Bruce Wayne than Batman? I think the scene when he first meets Clark as well as his conversations with Alfred have been more appealing than seeing him in the suit, which granted hasn't been much.

Not at all, I'm more excited for that and for Cavill as Clark too.
 
Not me. After we got Nolan's Bruce Wayne trilogy, I'm ready to see more Batman this time.

Yeah...I can see your point here. I think the lack of Batman got progressively worse in each film.
 
I don't know anything about the Riddler, if he is a prankster or a scary psychopath; I think his camp in the movie was good but 2 Face was the worst thing possible. I wish Harvey in TDK got more recognition for a completely different take on the character but he is overshadowed by Ledger.
Its sad that Batman Forever gets lambasted because its associated with Batman and Robin.
 
Hmm... doesn't strike me as being fan-made, but who knows...? Anyway, thanks for sharing.

Yeah, it could be real considering the TV show turned 50 this year. Maybe it'll pop up somewhere else later.

No problem. :up:
 
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