Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

[Obi-Ron]

And put Quicksilver in all of them!

 

[Incrediblejeff]

And put Quicksilver in all of them!

Played by a different actor in each movie.

 

[DrCosmic]

No, I don't realize that. What supporting evidence do you have for that statement?

I believe that Marvel wants the rights to Dr. Doom and Galactus, not Victor Van Damme and a swarm of bugs. ( In fact, if Marvel wanted to use variations of those Ultimate characters, they probably have the legal right as long as they Don't call them Dr. Doom and Galactus. Would Fox really argue if Marvel (for some inexplicable reason) wanted to include a goat legged-freak in a film?)

Why would anybody in their right mind base a film on that crap instead of 50 years of classic stories and characters?

Even Millar himself (and, no, I don't trust him) has said it will be based on Lee/Kirby.

I wish I could be as sure that they wouldn't do Ultimate as you're sure they will, but I don't see how we have enough real information to make either statement. I don't think any of us could say it won't feature H.E.R.B.I.E. in place of Johnny at this point.

The popular Marvel Superhero film franchises, both Spider-Man and the MCU, have been heavily inspired by the Ultimate Universe, from story to costume to characterization. Before the most recent films, the Ultimate comics were the best and most recent modernization of the Marvel Universe, and they work better for making a modern movie, and were designed to be such, while classic stories from 50 years ago would work better for making a movie for 50 years ago, and were rarely (never?) designed for film audiences anyway.

Focusing on the few mis-steps - not even that, just fan-hated changes - in the Ultimate Universe doesn't take away from the vast number of changes that were smart and good and are being used by Marvel Studios and Sony currently. Fox would be wise to follow suit, and simply omit the very few fan-hated changes. Fox may not be wise though, as it is rumored they are being, I'll give you that.

You are also wrong to say that Marvel Studios could use alternate versions of these characters, neither is there any reason for Fox to disdain versions of the characters they paid good money for, no matter how much you personally dislike them.

 

[Mightyally]

I am new to this subject so I have some questions. If some friendly soul would be kind enough to answer them I would be very grateful.

Is there a confirmed reboot? Do we know the director or producer? Is there anything I should know about this movie?

If we get a new ff, I will be really happy. We need a new Dr Doom. The previous one wasn´t what I hoped for.

 

[Endeavor]

Everything is mostly speculation at this point Mighty.
There is a director attached, and that's about the only concrete piece of info we have. FOX has hinted that the production is moving forward but there hasn't been anything new, official at least, for a while.

 

[Kelly]

I am new to this subject so I have some questions. If some friendly soul would be kind enough to answer them I would be very grateful.

Is there a confirmed reboot? Do we know the director or producer? Is there anything I should know about this movie?

If we get a new ff, I will be really happy. We need a new Dr Doom. The previous one wasn´t what I hoped for.

Trank is the director, writers have been advertised but nothing official from Fox except for the director.

We have heard that offices are being opened in Louisiana to set up for filming in September, but most are pretty doubtful that that was official information given.

 

[Lord]

In part many fans are still hoping this will go back to Marvel Studios

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The popular Marvel Superhero film franchises, both Spider-Man and the MCU, have been heavily inspired by the Ultimate Universe, from story to costume to characterization. Before the most recent films, the Ultimate comics were the best and most recent modernization of the Marvel Universe, and they work better for making a modern movie, and were designed to be such, while classic stories from 50 years ago would work better for making a movie for 50 years ago, and were rarely (never?) designed for film audiences anyway.

Focusing on the few mis-steps - not even that, just fan-hated changes - in the Ultimate Universe doesn't take away from the vast number of changes that were smart and good and are being used by Marvel Studios and Sony currently. Fox would be wise to follow suit, and simply omit the very few fan-hated changes. Fox may not be wise though, as it is rumored they are being, I'll give you that.

You are also wrong to say that Marvel Studios could use alternate versions of these characters, neither is there any reason for Fox to disdain versions of the characters they paid good money for, no matter how much you personally dislike them.

It may become a matter of semantics, but updates are necessary and I don't have a problem with simple revisions that may be similar to things done in Ultimate or other recent storylines.

In the case of the FF, the origin obviously needs to be updated, but I would keep it as close in spirit to the original as possible. But the nature of the characters shouldn't be changed. Ben and Reed met in college and it makes just as much sense to have a football player and a brilliant science student meet in college in 2013 as it did in the 1960s

Doom should still be Doom and Galactus should still be Galactus. Again, some updating is fine, but don't completely change the nature of the characters.

I wouldn't consider some reasonable updates bad - whether they look similar to Ultimate or not - but I wouldn't consider that 'basing' the film on Ultimate FF.

The film should be based on the most enduring elements of the characters. Influences from Kirby, Byrne, Millar etc. are fine, but it certainly shouldn't be based on a series that is completely out of step with 50 years of history.

 

[Mightyally]

Everything is mostly speculation at this point Mighty.
There is a director attached, and that's about the only concrete piece of info we have. FOX has hinted that the production is moving forward but there hasn't been anything new, official at least, for a while.

Trank is the director, writers have been advertised but nothing official from Fox except for the director.

We have heard that offices are being opened in Louisiana to set up for filming in September, but most are pretty doubtful that that was official information given.

Alright!

Thx guys

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

For as much as it can be trusted, here's what IMDB has:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1502712/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers

 

[marcvader]

I wish we had a clear idea of what was going on with this production. Any info I hear is usually not official.

 

[Zarex]

FOX is probably still attempting to work out a budget, and the rumored script problems are a reflection of this. Big screen superhero spectacles are pricey - TA, TDKR, ASM, IM3, MOS, DOFP, GOTG, B&S and A:AOU all either had or will have budgets greater than $200 million. Unless Trank (with just one film under his belt) has filmmaking knowledge that somehow has eluded Whedon, Nolan, Webb, Black, Snyder, Singer and Gunn, a proper portrayal of the FF is going to cost beaucoup bucks. With the prior two FF films performing modestly at the box office, and the last two FOX X-Men films underperforming, FOX is either going to have to cut corners and hope for the best or (please oh please oh please) relinquish the rights.

 

[DrCosmic]

It may become a matter of semantics, but updates are necessary and I don't have a problem with simple revisions that may be similar to things done in Ultimate or other recent storylines.

In the case of the FF, the origin obviously needs to be updated, but I would keep it as close in spirit to the original as possible. But the nature of the characters shouldn't be changed. Ben and Reed met in college and it makes just as much sense to have a football player and a brilliant science student meet in college in 2013 as it did in the 1960s

Doom should still be Doom and Galactus should still be Galactus. Again, some updating is fine, but don't completely change the nature of the characters.

I wouldn't consider some reasonable updates bad - whether they look similar to Ultimate or not - but I wouldn't consider that 'basing' the film on Ultimate FF.

The film should be based on the most enduring elements of the characters. Influences from Kirby, Byrne, Millar etc. are fine, but it certainly shouldn't be based on a series that is completely out of step with 50 years of history.

This bold statement is the core of updating, imho. It is a true statement, but audiences today honestly buy in less to such contrivances as a nerd and a jock meeting off screen and becoming besties. So what worked in the 1960s doesn't actually work today, even though it's just as plausible as it was back then, the level of plausibility is raised - as far as human interactions. Let's not have the fallacy of 'they accept aliens, so they'll accept people who have no reason to be friends being friends.'

And while you may not consider things being 'based' in the Ultimate universe, the fact is that it inspires costumes and story most strongly. It keeps the spirit of the original completely intact, but it changes a lot of the details. Instead of keeping all the enduring elements, it keeps the spirit that made those elements enduring and sometimes applies those to new elements.

Galactus being some bugs doesn't change the spirit of the character at all. Even Doom's goat legs don't change the character as much as he having powers does (a change I dislike strongly). There's little point in holding onto enduring elements that can be off putting on some level when you can have the spirit that made those elements enduring and apply it to things that are more modern, even if they haven't been in 50 years of comics.

FOX is probably still attempting to work out a budget, and the rumored script problems are a reflection of this. Big screen superhero spectacles are pricey - TA, TDKR, ASM, IM3, MOS, DOFP, GOTG, B&S and A:AOU all either had or will have budgets greater than $200 million. Unless Trank (with just one film under his belt) has filmmaking knowledge that somehow has eluded Whedon, Nolan, Webb, Black, Snyder, Singer and Gunn, a proper portrayal of the FF is going to cost beaucoup bucks. With the prior two FF films performing modestly at the box office, and the last two FOX X-Men films underperforming, FOX is either going to have to cut corners and hope for the best or (please oh please oh please) relinquish the rights.

Superheroes, have different abilities. Just because Magneto, and Namor and Colossus and Beast and Iceman are powerful mutants doesn't mean they can read minds. A mutant, even one with limited experience, like M, is a better choice to read minds, because they've shown that that's what they do. Now, it's true, many of those most powerful characters could read minds if they really wanted to, but they don't have any motivation or need to do so, and thus even less experience than M reading minds, even though they're much more accomplished mutants. M does, so bringing her in to read minds is not hoping for the best or cutting corners, it's getting the best person for the particular job. The more specific the job, ie making a great big SFX movie on a limited budget, the more specific experience is valuable rather than general experience of being a mutant/making movies/whatever. Now, you could bring in Beast to read minds, because he's got so much experience as a mutant, and he might be able to invent something that could read minds, but that would be a crapshoot, that would be hoping for the best. Now, some people in the comics universe feel like all mutants have the same powers, basically, so one mutant is just as good as another, and the make no distinctions between them. This is just not true, and generally we accept that those characters just don't understand what it is that mutants do.

And remember, the article you showed me that explained in detail why a high budget would be bad for Fantastic Four?

Imagine if FF was never in danger of being skewered over the summer? The concerns you brought up earlier, nearby releases, may never be a problem for this franchise. That's a good thing, and bodes well for it's success. There's no script problems or budget meetings, it's just Fox getting someone who made a great movie with lots of FX and scale and most importantly heart without spending a lot of money to do it again. It's just that simple.

 

[Mightyally]

Nice post ^ but this.

Galactus being some bugs doesn't change the spirit of the character at all. Even Doom's goat legs don't change the character as much as he having powers does (a change I dislike strongly). There's little point in holding onto enduring elements that can be off putting on some level when you can have the spirit that made those elements enduring and apply it to things that are more modern, even if they haven't been in 50 years of comics.

Dude I think I see your point. Excuse me if I got it all wrong now (not my native lang) but I´ll reply anyway. There is no reason to turn Galactus in to some bugs. If I understand this right, you mean that the spirit of a char will be intact even if it´s adapted to more modern elements. But that´s not true in a lot of cases imo. It can be a good idea. A lot of things look ridiculous on screen.

Vision for instance, might be tricky to pull off in a way where he doesn´t look strange. Therefore Vision could just be an A.I living in a computer. Like the new Jarvis if Ultron kills Jarvis. Just like Galactus being bugs rather than an huge human-ish dude.

I agree but some charachter´s original elements play a part of the char so big that it can´t be changed too much. I feel like Galactus is one of those.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

This bold statement is the core of updating, imho. It is a true statement, but audiences today honestly buy in less to such contrivances as a nerd and a jock meeting off screen and becoming besties. So what worked in the 1960s doesn't actually work today, even though it's just as plausible as it was back then, the level of plausibility is raised - as far as human interactions. Let's not have the fallacy of 'they accept aliens, so they'll accept people who have no reason to be friends being friends.'

First off, Reed isn't a nerd.

Secondly, not only is their relationship extremely plausable, but it is relatable to anyone who went to college. The Ultimate version is much less plausible and relatable.

In Jr. High, the jocks hang out with the jocks, the nerds hang out with the nerds and the burn-outs hang out with the burn-outs.

In college that changes dramatically as very diverse students are all put together at a point in their life when they are mature enough to become friends with people from very different backgrounds.

When I went to Penn State, I had great grades and great SAT's and I put down, as my first preference, a centrally located dorm that my older brother told me I'd never get. But I did get it, and I found out that the other freshmen who got that dorm were football players and people with great grades and great SAT's. So my friends from college are generally people who were smart or football players.

And those friendships are the most enduring friendships I've ever had. I rarely talk to people I grew up with, but I still get together with my college friends every few years.

 

[wobbly]

I wish we had a clear idea of what was going on with this production. Any info I hear is usually not official.

No news is good news imo. Figure Fox's time to get the camera's rolling must be running low by now.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

No news is good news imo. Figure Fox's time to get the camera's rolling must be running low by now.

Like Sarah Connor said, every day from this point on is a gift. We're like a month away from this alleged mid-September production start (which before was allegedly mid-July), and we got bupkis. Might ought to start a countdown or something.

 

[wobbly]

It's nice if we knew when the deal expires...

Going by daredevil, since Fox blighted the screens with Elektra in January 2005, it took nearly 8 years (I think Marvel officially took him back in October 2012)

If it's the same sort of time span for the FF Fox have until around late 2014/early 2015 to get the cameras rolling, as ROTSS was released in 2007.

Hopefully when Marvel were selling these time limited rights deals back in the dark days they had the sense to keep the time spans for the bigger properties a bit lower.

That being said I think Fox had the rights as far back as 97, & got the cameras rolling for their first FF film in 2004, so going by that it's 7 years at least, so it might well be the same deal as with Daredevil.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's nice if we knew when the deal expires...

Going by daredevil, since Fox blighted the screens with Elektra in January 2005, it took nearly 8 years (I think Marvel officially took him back in October 2012)

If it's the same sort of time span for the FF Fox have until around late 2014/early 2015 to get the cameras rolling, as ROTSS was released in 2007.

Hopefully when Marvel were selling these time limited rights deals back in the dark days they had the sense to keep the time spans for the bigger properties a bit lower.

That being said I think Fox had the rights as far back as 97, & got the cameras rolling for their first FF film in 2004, so going by that it's 7 years at least, so it might well be the same deal as with Daredevil.

While we may never know the exact details, I think we're getting down to it now.

We know that Fox has announced a March 6, 2015 release date and an original July 2013 start of production has been pushed back to September 2013. (Is the contract based on release date, start of production. . . or both? It could be that Fox needs to start production by Dec 31, 2013 and release within 2 years - that's complete speculation on my part, but it could explain why they've been talking about a fairly early production start for a 2015 release. . . or it could have something to do wit Trank's contract)

No matter the specific details, I feel confident that if we make it to October (and that seems both close and very far away with the current situation ) with no news, the chances are very good that Fox won't meet whatever deadlines are in place.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Played by a different actor in each movie.

And in the sequels every scene has a different actor playing QS.

 

[Kelly]

It's nice if we knew when the deal expires...

Going by daredevil, since Fox blighted the screens with Elektra in January 2005, it took nearly 8 years (I think Marvel officially took him back in October 2012)

If it's the same sort of time span for the FF Fox have until around late 2014/early 2015 to get the cameras rolling, as ROTSS was released in 2007.

Hopefully when Marvel were selling these time limited rights deals back in the dark days they had the sense to keep the time spans for the bigger properties a bit lower.

That being said I think Fox had the rights as far back as 97, & got the cameras rolling for their first FF film in 2004, so going by that it's 7 years at least, so it might well be the same deal as with Daredevil.

While we may never know the exact details, I think we're getting down to it now.

We know that Fox has announced a March 6, 2015 release date and an original July 2013 start of production has been pushed back to September 2013. (Is the contract based on release date, start of production. . . or both? It could be that Fox needs to start production by Dec 31, 2013 and release within 2 years - that's complete speculation on my part, but it could explain why they've been talking about a fairly early production start for a 2015 release. . . or it could have something to do wit Trank's contract)

No matter the specific details, I feel confident that if we make it to October (and that seems both close and very far away with the current situation ) with no news, the chances are very good that Fox won't meet whatever deadlines are in place.

Well, for the longest time people thought it was 2012, and we have since discovered that wasn't the case. So who the heck knows at this point...

 

[wobbly]

While we may never know the exact details, I think we're getting down to it now.

We know that Fox has announced a March 6, 2015 release date and an original July 2013 start of production has been pushed back to September 2013. (Is the contract based on release date, start of production. . . or both? It could be that Fox needs to start production by Dec 31, 2013 and release within 2 years - that's complete speculation on my part, but it could explain why they've been talking about a fairly early production start for a 2015 release. . . or it could have something to do wit Trank's contract)

No matter the specific details, I feel confident that if we make it to October (and that seems both close and very far away with the current situation ) with no news, the chances are very good that Fox won't meet whatever deadlines are in place.

I don't know if the current deal is the same, but the old one that led to Corman's infamous FF flick was based on dates of production commencing with the camera's officially rolling (with that deal set to expire on December 31st, Corman had his cameras rolling on December 28th).

Afaik Marvel did learn from that experience and future deals meant the films must have a theatrical release to qualify, so Fox or Sony can't just knock out something as cheap as possible and can it. They have to distribute it, market it, put it out there in the theatres, no matter how god awful it may be (an expensive exercise for a deliberate bomb).

Hopefully the deadline is for shooting to commence rather than for release (Fox knocked out the previous FF films in about a year or less, so odd they would have doubled that now), and hopefully that is looming sooner rather than later. Fox's official news releases (which aint been much) suggests this year may well be it for them to get production officially started, so the longer nothing is happening the better.

With zero news on casting so far (other than some rumours), and nothing at all suggesting any pre-production work has even started (set builds, locations sorted and scheduled etc), the September start date for shooting in Louisiana does seem somewhat optimistic.

Time will tell I guess.

 

[wobbly]

Well, for the longest time people thought it was 2012, and we have since discovered that wasn't the case. So who the heck knows at this point...

Only the respective companies lawyers I'd say...

Figure there must be some sort of 'non disclosure' thing going on with these deals as I'd have thought the details concerning all of them (X-Men & Spider-Man too) would have come to light by now if there were not.

Maybe if Fox blab about it they lose the rights, and if Marvel blab about it they get extended or something like that. Only reason I can think of as to why all the studios involved seem to keep this time sensitive thing on any active deals a secret.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here's why I'm not particularly concerned with the exact contract requirements:

Even if we assume whatever contractual date that exists is still somewhat far off - let's say for a hypothetical that they need to start production by the end of June 2014 - even with plenty of time left to start production, I think they're quickly approaching a go / no-go decision.

It seems like they are planning to start production in September at this point. If that doesn't happen, they're going to have problems.

They have to either move on with whatever production crew is being put in place or not. Production personnel can't just wait indefinitely. They need paychecks and if this project isn't providing them, those production personnel need to move on to new projects that will actually pay.

Even if they have another year under the Marvel Contract, once they lose any production personel they are currently lining up (including Josh Trank), they will have a mess on their hands and have to start over. And projects like this rarely get scrapped, reworked and put back together in a timely fashion under the best of circumstances. With a contractual deadline looming, that seems even less likely.

That's why I don't think the details of the contract are overly important right now. I think Fox will either begin production soon of a Josh Trank directed FF film or scrap it completely. I don't think it's realistic to think they'll just say: "Nah, we're not going to start in September. . . I think now we'll shoot for a March 2014 production start." and be able to have a crew ready, willing and able to do that in March.

And that's why I think that if we've heard nothing by the beginning of October, Fox will never make this movie.

 

[Mr.M]

Only the respective companies lawyers I'd say...

Figure there must be some sort of 'non disclosure' thing going on with these deals as I'd have thought the details concerning all of them (X-Men & Spider-Man too) would have come to light by now if there were not.

Maybe if Fox blab about it they lose the rights, and if Marvel blab about it they get extended or something like that. Only reason I can think of as to why all the studios involved seem to keep this time sensitive thing on any active deals a secret.

Why would you want your competitors to know the details of a deal you have with another rival studio. Think Universal would like to know, "Hmmm, Fox needs this FF reboot out by spring 2015. What can we position around that?" Even Disney itself. If there is some vague timeline or vicinity where pre-production must commence, or ambiguity as to what actually constitutes "in production", then Disney can't blindly claim dates or work obliviously to a scenario where they'd be in direct competition with Fox for exposure for Marvel properties, which only hurts both studios.