From SHH with Love: The Relationship Thread

[hopefuldreamer]

This isn't some 20 year old college girl that I flirt with, this is a 30 year old woman whom I have a history with, a history with in person when we lived in the same area, and a history with the past couple years since we've gotten back in touch with each other. It's not random flirting that I've taken out of context, it's been her flat out telling me that I'm someone she would marry, she has feelings for me, and if we were in the same place that we would give it a shot. This isn't flirting that's beaten around the bush, the subject has flat out been discussed in serious context. And now she wants to act like it hasn't been.

And for the record, yes her and I have kissed.

I've told a guy I had feelings for him but 'it was complicated' - when actually it wasn't at all, I just didn't fancy him - because it's a wimps way of letting someone down easy.

I've told plenty of 'nice guys' that they would be amazing husbands and that we would work together so well, just because I know it can't happen and it might make them feel good. And yeah, it's sooooooo easy to say 'yeah it would totally happen if we were in the same place' when you know you aren't.

As for the kissing... well that really requires a bit of context on her relationship/kissing experiance and values.

If she's like me, the kiss doesn't convince me you ever actually had a chance with her. Because i've kissed guys that I would never date in a million years because I thought they were being really sweet and I got caught up in the moment.

If she's only ever kisses people she has feelings for, then I would concede that maybe at one point she did. But things can certainly have changed in that time.

And btw, i'm not trying to put you down, sorry if it's coming across that way. I just used to be so naive when it came to men, and I let a few guys keep me 'on the hook' by giving me all the right mixed signals when they really had no intention of ever 'giving it a go'.

You're worth much much more than being on her hook.

 

[Anita18]

A girl drunkenly told me she loved me a few weeks ago, and I awkwardly walked away like someone farted. Yeah, that'd be head-for-the-hills territory for me. I'd have to find a safe house or something.

It's just that...how do you know someone's marriage material without being in a serious relationship with them? If you're not, it's just a roundabout way of telling someone they're really nice. Friendzoning with an extra twist. Nell obviously deserves better than that.

Or if the person in question is a woman, it implies that she's a good cook and housekeeper.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Ultimately, it's actions, not words. The reason the "I love you" freaked me out is because we've barely kissed. How does she know she loves me? How do I know I'd like her [physically]? I mean, I don't. She could be a total prude in bed, a horrible cook, bother me every time I try to read or relax. That stuff has a very short shelf life. So it's the same here. She may say she would consider marrying you, but what has she done exactly? Hell this girl I brought up asked to move in with me, even so far as offering me money, and that still wasn't enough to remove the sheer awkwardness of it. The fact, Nell, that you didn't find it awkward shows how inexperienced you are. Also how easily manipulated you are.

Most guys develop a sort of fear of women from being in relationships; what I mean is they are skeptical of girls trying to rush commitment because commitment is scary. You display that kind of naivety where you'd expect things to be perfect.

I have several "joke" girlfriends by the way. We flirt, we act like we're in love, or that we'd marry each other, but it's an act.

You're still stuck in the stage where you think all this flirtation is serious. It's probably you're biggest turn off to women to. You can't be fun because you take it all so seriously.

 

[Erzengel]

I was dating someone who was going away at school, we were intimate pretty quickly and the love word was used. However, the question of a long term commitment was brought up while I was just happy just to be in a relationship. I know I wasn't ready for that, the distance and being at school didn't help.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I've told a guy I had feelings for him but 'it was complicated' - when actually it wasn't at all, I just didn't fancy him - because it's a wimps way of letting someone down easy.

I've told plenty of 'nice guys' that they would be amazing husbands and that we would work together so well, just because I know it can't happen and it might make them feel good. And yeah, it's sooooooo easy to say 'yeah it would totally happen if we were in the same place' when you know you aren't.

As for the kissing... well that really requires a bit of context on her relationship/kissing experiance and values.

If she's like me, the kiss doesn't convince me you ever actually had a chance with her. Because i've kissed guys that I would never date in a million years because I thought they were being really sweet and I got caught up in the moment.

If she's only ever kisses people she has feelings for, then I would concede that maybe at one point she did. But things can certainly have changed in that time.

And btw, i'm not trying to put you down, sorry if it's coming across that way. I just used to be so naive when it came to men, and I let a few guys keep me 'on the hook' by giving me all the right mixed signals when they really had no intention of ever 'giving it a go'.

You're worth much much more than being on her hook.

It's just that...how do you know someone's marriage material without being in a serious relationship with them? If you're not, it's just a roundabout way of telling someone they're really nice. Friendzoning with an extra twist. Nell obviously deserves better than that.

Or if the person in question is a woman, it implies that she's a good cook and housekeeper.

Ultimately, it's actions, not words. The reason the "I love you" freaked me out is because we've barely kissed. How does she know she loves me? How do I know I'd like her [physically]? I mean, I don't. She could be a total prude in bed, a horrible cook, bother me every time I try to read or relax. That stuff has a very short shelf life. So it's the same here. She may say she would consider marrying you, but what has she done exactly? Hell this girl I brought up asked to move in with me, even so far as offering me money, and that still wasn't enough to remove the sheer awkwardness of it. The fact, Nell, that you didn't find it awkward shows how inexperienced you are. Also how easily manipulated you are.

Most guys develop a sort of fear of women from being in relationships; what I mean is they are skeptical of girls trying to rush commitment because commitment is scary. You display that kind of naivety where you'd expect things to be perfect.

I have several "joke" girlfriends by the way. We flirt, we act like we're in love, or that we'd marry each other, but it's an act.

You're still stuck in the stage where you think all this flirtation is serious. It's probably you're biggest turn off to women to. You can't be fun because you take it all so seriously.

I guess I didn't take it as so much that we were going to end up getting married, but I just took it as okay, she can see herself being with me. And the reason why I didn't think any of this stuff to be weird is because I've known this girl for almost 10 years. It's not like she's someone who just showed up out of the blue or anything. Even though we are in our current areas, we were close friends before when we both lived in California, and we're close friends now. I probably talk to her more than I talk to anybody else. Her and I talk virtually every day all day, and we both know every detail and secret about each other, both good and bad. I took her words as serious because outside of the playful harmless flirting that we both do with each other, we've also had serious conversations to discuss how we both feel each other. This didn't all come about because of some playful teasing. It came about because of serious conversations her and I have had with each other on more than one occasion.

But it doesn't really matter any more. It's done and over with, it's not gonna change. What Erz said is pretty much what I'm doing. I'm just focusing on finishing up school and getting a career started and figuring out where I'm gonna be after I graduate. I'm done with women.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I guess I didn't take it as so much that we were going to end up getting married, but I just took it as okay, she can see herself being with me. And the reason why I didn't think any of this stuff to be weird is because I've known this girl for almost 10 years. It's not like she's someone who just showed up out of the blue or anything. Even though we are in our current areas, we were close friends before when we both lived in California, and we're close friends now. I probably talk to her more than I talk to anybody else. Her and I talk virtually every day all day, and we both know every detail and secret about each other, both good and bad. I took her words as serious because outside of the playful harmless flirting that we both do with each other, we've also had serious conversations to discuss how we both feel each other. This didn't all come about because of some playful teasing. It came about because of serious conversations her and I have had with each other on more than one occasion.

But it doesn't really matter any more. It's done and over with, it's not gonna change. What Erz said is pretty much what I'm doing. I'm just focusing on finishing up school and getting a career started and figuring out where I'm gonna be after I graduate. I'm done with women.

Yet, again, here you are in that very paragraph over analyzing and taking something very seriously....when it isn't.

Until you get to the core of why you do this I'm afraid you'll keep repeating this behavior.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the girl you speak of, were she to read what you write here, she might be a little freaked out by it. Not because it's not true, just because your reading of it is all sorts of wacky.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I was dating someone who was going away at school, we were intimate pretty quickly and the love word was used. However, the question of a long term commitment was brought up while I was just happy just to be in a relationship. I know I wasn't ready for that, the distance and being at school didn't help.

It's crazy. One of my closest friends has known a girl for 2 years during the end of high school, they got together and were very serious. Then college happened and they both started a long-distance relationship that, strangely, actually brought them closer. The distance helped solidify their relationship.

They're getting married this April.

 

[Anita18]

It's crazy. One of my closest friends has known a girl for 2 years during the end of high school, they got together and were very serious. Then college happened and they both started a long-distance relationship that, strangely, actually brought them closer. The distance helped solidify their relationship.

They're getting married this April.

It can make you develop and acknowledge the non-physical parts of the relationship, for sure. But it can be hard.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Well I'm terrible at flirtation, I don't have that many mock-girlfriends and the girl I'm dating is an extrovert who's more afraid of commitment than I am.

But she's still crazy about me. She's afraid of circumstances getting in the way and she voices her doubts but then all of it just goes away when she does something so completely out of her comfort zone that I start feeling guilty about not being able to see how much she cares.

I don't trust people, and I think that while she may still have her doubts about being able to stand up to her father, a bigger issue is in my not being able to trust her regarding her feelings towards me. It's upsetting because yeah.... I should trust her more.

Because she trusts me unconditionally. Right now it feels as though all that initial euphoria is dissolving and we're just calming down and getting to know each other better as partners. We both want to be serious about this so I guess this makes it serious. Just living with our folks is getting to be an ordeal but again, at least I know she's getting better at managing that.

edit: I should trust her when she tells me that she doesn't like smooth-talkers and alpha-males, that she can enjoy flirtation but at the end of the day she wants someone like me who she can trust and who she knows isn't lying to her just to get her in bed.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

It can make you develop and acknowledge the non-physical parts of the relationship, for sure. But it can be hard.

Exactly. It's never meant to be easy but I guess if you care enough you start caring more. And at the end of it all, you just realize that if there is one word to define the relationship it's "enduring."

Can't ask for proof beyond that.

 

[Erzengel]

Difficult too. I know people who dumped their high school sweetheart when they went away to college.

I know people who made it work being countries apart.

But most people aren't able to make it work. If I was single tomorrow, I'd have to meet someone pretty spectacular to even attempt it.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I don't know how to be subtle about this but...

Has anyone here ever dated a girl who had been sexually abused?

 

[The Guard]

Yes. What do you want to know?

 

[redhawk23]

I don't know how to be subtle about this but...

Has anyone here ever dated a girl who had been sexually abused?

Yes.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Yes.

Yes. What do you want to know?

What do you, as her partner, what do you do about it? You know it has happened and it cannot be changed, you hear that she and her family didn't do anything to take that into court -- you know these are scars she's has had to deal with for a long time and that deep down she hopes she can get past them with you.

You see those scars unfold when you're in bed together. Both the physical and the psychological. It's painful, you feel helpless, she talks about it with you alone and has this almost unconscious habit of blaming circumstances for everything even when it isn't related to abuses. Physical or otherwise.

She gets aroused when you are dominating in bed, and at the end of the day, you start thinking if you remind her of the other person. The answer is yes even when she says otherwise. The answer is yes because you two have a lot of superficial similarities and a habit of kissing her on the forehead.

I really don't know what I'm getting myself into here. All I know is that I love her and that I've hurt her emotionally one too many times without really thinking about it; and I hate myself. All I know is that she really, really loves me and cares for me and has put all of her trust in me and that there are days when I feel as though she really has expectations and needs that are beyond my ability to handle right now. Maybe over time. She believes today that I can help her and has helped her out. But...

No matter what I do --and I'm honestly doing as much as I can-- I'm afraid I'm unconsciously hurting her time and again. Because i'm a dumb ****.

 

[Anita18]

What do you, as her partner, what do you do about it? You know it has happened and it cannot be changed, you hear that she and her family didn't do anything to take that into court -- you know these are scars she's has had to deal with for a long time and that deep down she hopes she can get past them with you.

You see those scars unfold when you're in bed together. Both the physical and the psychological. It's painful, you feel helpless, she talks about it with you alone and has this almost unconscious habit of blaming circumstances for everything even when it isn't related to abuses. Physical or otherwise.

She gets aroused when you are dominating in bed, and at the end of the day, you start thinking if you remind her of the other person. The answer is yes even when she says otherwise. The answer is yes because you two have a lot of superficial similarities and a habit of kissing her on the forehead.

I really don't know what I'm getting myself into here. All I know is that I love her and that I've hurt her emotionally one too many times without really thinking about it; and I hate myself. All I know is that she really, really loves me and cares for me and has put all of her trust in me and that there are days when I feel as though she really has expectations and needs that are beyond my ability to handle right now. Maybe over time. She believes today that I can help her and has helped her out. But...

No matter what I do --and I'm honestly doing as much as I can-- I'm afraid I'm unconsciously hurting her time and again. Because i'm a dumb ****.

The most important thing now is for you to trust her. If she says you're doing fine and treating her right, or if she hasn't said anything at all to make you believe you're bringing back bad memories for her, you have to believe that.

She was a victim once. It doesn't mean that she's going to be damaged and traumatized forever. She needs to trust, and needs to be trusted in turn. Unless she wants to be a nun, there will be situations she finds herself in that will resembled what she experienced being abused. She, and her partners, can't run away from that forever. You can only deal with them as they come along. Be understanding, but don't put thoughts in her head that aren't there.

If you're still concerned that maybe she isn't divulging something to you because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings, you have to talk about that. Because you putting thoughts in her head (again), isn't going to help foster trust on either side.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

The most important thing now is for you to trust her. If she says you're doing fine and treating her right, or if she hasn't said anything at all to make you believe you're bringing back bad memories for her, you have to believe that.

She was a victim once. It doesn't mean that she's going to be damaged and traumatized forever. She needs to trust, and needs to be trusted in turn. Unless she wants to be a nun, there will be situations she finds herself in that will resembled what she experienced being abused. She, and her partners, can't run away from that forever. You can only deal with them as they come along. Be understanding, but don't put thoughts in her head that aren't there.

If you're still concerned that maybe she isn't divulging something to you because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings, you have to talk about that. Because you putting thoughts in her head (again), isn't going to help foster trust on either side.

Yes. Of course.

Yes.

I'm not putting thoughts in her head though. I'm not. She says she trusts me enough but... I know I keep hurting her. I need to be a lot more in control of myself. And she told me how that when I do that it feels like an implosion and good god. No I don't want that to happen to her. She's going away for the weekend and I know I won't be able to talk to her and she's very nice about it. She says she isn't mad at me and that while she was hurt that she's better off now. But... I don't know. She's a very impulsive girl. A lot of the time you could tell that she tries to say everything's fine but she's hurting inside.

 

[Anita18]

Yes. Of course.

Yes.

I'm not putting thoughts in her head though. I'm not. She says she trusts me enough but... I know I keep hurting her. I need to be a lot more in control of myself.

How so? I mean, it's one thing to lack patience and sometimes be inadvertently inconsiderate because you have a low tolerance for certain things. (That sounds entirely familiar to me! )

But you can't beat yourself up over stuff like kissing her on the forehead. That's an absolutely normal thing for lovers to do.

 

[The Guard]

What do you, as her partner, what do you do about it?

You let her deal with it, you hope she will deal with it in a healthy way, and you treat her like any other person.

She gets aroused when you are dominating in bed, and at the end of the day, you start thinking if you remind her of the other person. The answer is yes even when she says otherwise. The answer is yes because you two have a lot of superficial similarities and a habit of kissing her on the forehead.

And so what if you do a little bit?

Unless she has a problem with this, what's the issue, exactly?

If she likes it, she likes it. WHY she likes it is irrelevant. Plenty of people who are victims of rape, abuse, etc, end up liking dominance, and even have rape fantasies and so on. It's a way they can control their sexuality, their situation. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's how they cope.

I really don't know what I'm getting myself into here. All I know is that I love her and that I've hurt her emotionally one too many times without really thinking about it; and I hate myself. All I know is that she really, really loves me and cares for me and has put all of her trust in me and that there are days when I feel as though she really has expectations and needs that are beyond my ability to handle right now. Maybe over time. She believes today that I can help her and has helped her out. But...

How have you hurt her emotionally?

What kinds of expectations and needs does she have that are beyond you?

 

[Erzengel]

I'm not putting thoughts in her head though. I'm not. She says she trusts me enough but... I know I keep hurting her. I need to be a lot more in control of myself. And she told me how that when I do that it feels like an implosion and good god. No I don't want that to happen to her. She's going away for the weekend and I know I won't be able to talk to her and she's very nice about it. She says she isn't mad at me and that while she was hurt that she's better off now. But... I don't know. She's a very impulsive girl. A lot of the time you could tell that she tries to say everything's fine but she's hurting inside.

Are you slapping her around?

Are you mentally abusing her?

Are you being a general a'hole to her?

You really have to relax and stop being so effing hard on yourself. You are going to beat yourself down so bad, that you won't be able to to say boo to her because you are going to be worried that you will upset/hurt her.

Just be yourself and take things as they come and stop being Chicken Little about everything.

 

[TheBat812]

Are you slapping her around?

Are you mentally abusing her?

Are you being a general a'hole to her?

You really have to relax and stop being so effing hard on yourself. You are going to beat yourself down so bad, that you won't be able to to say boo to her because you are going to be worried that you will upset/hurt her.

Just be yourself and take things as they come and stop being Chicken Little about everything.

Nailed it.

Stop overthinking everything, Nave! You're never going to know every reason for everything she does, so as long as you trust her and you make each other happy, just be yourself and enjoy each other.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

How so? I mean, it's one thing to lack patience and sometimes be inadvertently inconsiderate because you have a low tolerance for certain things. (That sounds entirely familiar to me! )

But you can't beat yourself up over stuff like kissing her on the forehead. That's an absolutely normal thing for lovers to do.

I love kissing her on the forehead. *reddens*

I do have low tolerance for certain things but... I dunno. It's her. It's her. I end up tolerating it because it's her.

And well. I'm happy. I really am happy.

You let her deal with it, you hope she will deal with it in a healthy way, and you treat her like any other person.

And so what if you do a little bit?

Unless she has a problem with this, what's the issue, exactly?

Hmm. None. Honestly speaking. None. But it is something I never considered before. It's something new. But yes. It isn't an issue as you've said it is. She doesn't seem to think of it as a problem.

What kinds of expectations and needs does she have that are beyond you?

Well at least with her folks -- like I said this before, they are very adamant about marrying her off to someone with an Ivy League degree and nothing less of that.They'd marry her off right now if she said yes. And well, I think there are better guys out there than I am -- more self-confident, successful, good-looking, etc. Hell even more mature. What I'm offering her is just downright love right now.

Are you slapping her around?

Are you mentally abusing her?

Are you being a general a'hole to her?

You really have to relax and stop being so effing hard on yourself. You are going to beat yourself down so bad, that you won't be able to to say boo to her because you are going to be worried that you will upset/hurt her.

Just be yourself and take things as they come and stop being Chicken Little about everything.

Nailed it.

Stop overthinking everything, Nave! You're never going to know every reason for everything she does, so as long as you trust her and you make each other happy, just be yourself and enjoy each other.

I know guys -- I know. Thanks

I do overthink stuff. And end up not being able to really do anything about it. Things are actually going well now -- it's no longer as crazy and over-the-top as it was a while ago. I really love her. Like I really really love her. And she sees that. She loves me back. That's all that matters right now. We're just in college, there will probably be so many other problems up ahead but right now it's just so nice to know that she genuinely feels happy when I'm there.

I mean wow. It really feels good.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm glad things are going alright but remember this.....

while there is probably someone out there better suited for her, that doesn't mean that he is better than you and honestly, there are probably better women for you out there than her...

Just have a little self respect in terms of dating her and don't let your confidence in yourself be indicative on how she sees you but on how you see yourself.

 

[Anita18]

I do have low tolerance for certain things but... I dunno. It's her. It's her. I end up tolerating it because it's her.

I know exactly what you mean. My fiancé is pretty short with everyone except me. I'm hoping he'll be the same if we have kids, because normally he hates kids (well, the noisy unruly ones, which frankly is 90% of them ) but I've heard from multiple parents that it's different when it's your own.

Well at least with her folks -- like I said this before, they are very adamant about marrying her off to someone with an Ivy League degree and nothing less of that.They'd marry her off right now if she said yes. And well, I think there are better guys out there than I am-- more self-confident, successful, good-looking, etc. Hell even more mature. What I'm offering her is just downright love right now.

Keep working on that self-confidence, Nave. Just because someone is better than you on paper (remember, ON PAPER), doesn't mean that they'd be a better partner for her.

You'd think that every woman would jump for a millionaire husband with a Wall St job and who wines and dines you on a regular basis and takes you out to concerts and resorts and stuff. I'd consider that one of the circles of hell.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I don't know how to be subtle about this but...

Has anyone here ever dated a girl who had been sexually abused?

Avoid.

Too many emotional issues, AND can bring an incredible amount of drama into a relationship.

The worst part about these situations is that these girls often crave abusive men.

Often they have learned how to Abuse as well, as a form of survival. They can often seem cute, but in reality are manipulative liars, who have learned to get what they want, end's justify means types. Don't be fooled by her plea of wanting a "Nice guy for once". That is like a Great White Shark wanting to take home a nice sea-lion for dinner.

These girls often know only two roles. Abuse or be Abused.

If you're a nice guy, sweet and caring, your relationship will be a severe emotional, perhaps literal, stomping of the testicles.

If you're a physical and emotionally abusive criminal, the kind who deals drugs and stuff, well then she will fit into your lifestyle nicely, and maybe even bring in some extra income from stripping or ****ing johns on the side.

Since I'm assuming you don't want either situation, AVOID the abused girls. If you care about her, keep it plutonic, and her at a distance. Don't get any hero-complex confused with your love life. I know this is a Superhero website, and everyone wants to be a hero, but keep in mind that some of the people who need the most help are NOT the ones you want to get into a serious relationship with.