The Relationship Thread: Because Superhero Forums are Full of Sexperts! - - - - - - - - Part 27

[PacificBoy]

Is a kiss and a hug at the end of a first date considered normal for you Western chaps? For us here in the East if we get a kiss/hug it's a big hint that a second date is on the cards.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Of course. A girl wouldn't kiss and hug you if the date went terribly. Unless it was a pity hug and a quick peck on the cheek, but that'd be easy to spot.

 

[enterthemadness]

There is absolutely no harm in sending a text message.

Here's the thing:

If she's not interested, it doesn't matter if you text or not. It's not going to happen. The worst that will happen is she says no, or more likely, ignores it.

If she IS interested, then it DOES matter if you text her, because if you don't, you'll be missing out on an opportunity.

Don't ask her what her days off are. You mentioned seeing a movie with her? Okay. Send her a text saying hey, asking her how her weekend was, and telling her you were wanting to see Lucy on Friday (just an example) and ask if she'll join you.

If she's free on Friday and interested, she'll say yes. If she's not free on Friday but still interested, she'll offer up an alternative. If she's not interested, it doesn't matter if she's free or not, and you'll know it.

My god....you a genius. Although, I might suggest Hercules (which I just saw) or Guardians of the Galaxy for Sunday (which I will see the day before with bro and Dad).


Or yeah, maybe Lucy...


But yeah, just be direct like 'Hey, how was your weekend? I plan on going to see such and such Sunday, would you like to come see it with me?

 

[Mr.M]

Hugs and cheek kisses don't mean **** alone. Needs to be something else there unless I'm mistaken, but I don't think so.

 

[Flint Marko]

Of course they have excuses for XYZ. That's how they test your interest level and persistence. Eventually your patience runs thin and you have to move on. But it's how a girl is really going to gauge what your interest level really is. If you are too desperate and insist on phone numbers or dates, it could be a turn off. If you don't continue to show interest consistently, then she knows you probably have little interest in her. She has to be noncommittal to weed out the flaky guys and the needy guys all at once, hence the mixed signals.

Hmmm I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you and I meet the same kind of girls haha. Or our approach is different.
If I see a girl I'm attracted to I make a concerted effort to get to know her, and engage her in some sort of conversation to find some kind of common interest. I usually then make a move once I feel comfortable around her. If she gives me some sort of run around and I feel there's still some sort of chance that she's attracted to me I'll persist, but I'm referring to when she's clearly not interested. That's when I'd prefer a no.
It's a small quibble, but a quibble nonetheless. As I said before I get why that's tough so I'm not going to fault girls for not doing it.

 

[PacificBoy]

Ah. Thought it was still considered common courtesy, but yeah, a pity hug and peck would be easy to suss out.

 

[enterthemadness]

Of course. A girl wouldn't kiss and hug you if the date went terribly. Unless it was a pity hug and a quick peck on the cheek, but that'd be easy to spot.

Oooooooh, then I got a pity hug two months back on a different first date. I mean...we were laughing and had a good time on the date, but I had to ask for a hug, and I got a one-arm hug.


a one-armer.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Oooooooh, then I got a pity hug two months back on a different first date. I mean...we were laughing and had a good time on the date, but I had to ask for a hug, and I got a one-arm hug.


a one-armer.

Oh no. If you had to ask for a hug, then that immediately makes it awkward. It should be mutual and natural, not forced. NEVER ask for a hug.

 

[enterthemadness]

Haha glad to hear that, I'm actually a server at an olive garden. What did you both get? The tour of Italy is my personal favorite.

I got the...Five Cheese Zita pasta thing. And she got a pasta with meat sauce. She did let me have a zip of her Strawberry Lemonade though.


Just to be clear, cause I am horrible at this ****...when you pay for the dinner and say no change, the change they keep is their tip, right?

 

[Flint Marko]

I got the...Five Cheese Zita pasta thing. And she got a pasta with meat sauce. She did let me have a zip of her Strawberry Lemonade though.


Just to be clear, cause I am horrible at this ****...when you pay for the dinner and say no change, the change they keep is their tip, right?

Five Cheese ziti is fantastic, definitely in my top 5.
Haha nd yes, that if you say keep the change they keep everything you left that doesn't go to the bill Makes things easier for us.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Yes.

 

[enterthemadness]

Oh no. If you had to ask for a hug, then that immediately makes it awkward. It should be mutual and natural, not forced. NEVER ask for a hug.

Well, I know now.



At least I can say, I've went out on two first dates in one year. That's actually a step forward in my love life.



#ForeverAlone

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Here's the thing I wish all girls knew: I'd rather you outright reject me then beat around the bush. I know it's awkward but if I'm going out on a limb and being honest with you, don't try and "let me down easy". Say no, not interested. Don't make excuses or be dishonest, we can see right through that and that's even worse.

Agreed 100%

Oddly enough, I had one of those "outright rejections" that, while all my friends called her a "*****" for how she responded to me, I actually was mildly relieved by it.

So long story, cuz I ramble: While I was in college, this girl that was in my department, I talked to her for the first time at one of the first department parties I went to. She is insanely attractive, however, her crazy was well documented. I'm not just talking crazy, I'm talking snorting cocaine in the bathroom before classes. I can say that NOW she's cleaned up (I think anyways), but at the time, she was a major druggie.

Well at this party, her and I ended up spending most of it together, and she flat out was telling me she was attracted to me and such and such. I was hesitant on making a move because I knew about her crazy / drug abuse, and wasn't sure if I wanted to get mixed up in that. So, I half assed an attempt to take her home - she was drunk, I asked her if she needed a ride home, she declined, so I went home on my own.

Well, her and I continued to hang around on campus together, she'd walk me to class and stuff so finally I told her "You know, I made a mistake the other night at the party that I'd like to rectify. I never got your number" To which she replied "I'm not gonna give you my number" and she followed up by saying "I'm not going to give you my number, because I'm not going to answer your call. And no, I won't take your number, because I'm not going to call you. I'm not going to waste either of our time by exchanging phone numbers with you."

My friends called her a ***** because of her bluntness, but I was kinda like "well, at least she was honest"

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean.
I was referring specifically to a situation in which I ask someone out, and instead of saying "no" she says, "well I don't know if I can cause I've got to do xyz" or some other transparent excuse. Usually it's easy to tell when they're just trying to let you down easy; I'm saying I'd rather be told no than told something like that. And if she's only telling me that to keep me as a "backup" of some sort then I don't like that either haha.


Exactly. Usually it's easy to pick up when a girl is or is not interested, but I think I'd just much rather prefer a girl tell me "no" then some kind of non-answer. I like when people are blunt and straightforward with me lol.
That being said, I was asked out once by a very strange girl who lived in the apartment under me and I said yes because I felt awkward giving her any other answer. So I somewhat sympathize with women in that regard, letting down someone like that to their face isn't the easiest.

I've made out at parties with a couple girls that I didn't want to because it was easier to just make out with them for a bit than to say no. I'm a horrible person

Is a kiss and a hug at the end of a first date considered normal for you Western chaps? For us here in the East if we get a kiss/hug it's a big hint that a second date is on the cards.

It depends.

I've had first dates that ended with a handshake. First dates that ended with a hug. I've tried to end a first date with a kiss, to which she declined because she felt it was too soon. I've never ended a first date with a kiss, despite what some people say that you need to go for the kiss on the first date.

 

[Flint Marko]

Agreed 100%

Oddly enough, I had one of those "outright rejections" that, while all my friends called her a "*****" for how she responded to me, I actually was mildly relieved by it.

So long story, cuz I ramble: While I was in college, this girl that was in my department, I talked to her for the first time at one of the first department parties I went to. She is insanely attractive, however, her crazy was well documented. I'm not just talking crazy, I'm talking snorting cocaine in the bathroom before classes. I can say that NOW she's cleaned up (I think anyways), but at the time, she was a major druggie.

Well at this party, her and I ended up spending most of it together, and she flat out was telling me she was attracted to me and such and such. I was hesitant on making a move because I knew about her crazy / drug abuse, and wasn't sure if I wanted to get mixed up in that. So, I half assed an attempt to take her home - she was drunk, I asked her if she needed a ride home, she declined, so I went home on my own.

Well, her and I continued to hang around on campus together, she'd walk me to class and stuff so finally I told her "You know, I made a mistake the other night at the party that I'd like to rectify. I never got your number" To which she replied "I'm not gonna give you my number" and she followed up by saying "I'm not going to give you my number, because I'm not going to answer your call. And no, I won't take your number, because I'm not going to call you. I'm not going to waste either of our time by exchanging phone numbers with you."

My friends called her a ***** because of her bluntness, but I was kinda like "well, at least she was honest"



I've made out at parties with a couple girls that I didn't want to because it was easier to just make out with them for a bit than to say no. I'm a horrible person



It depends.

I've had first dates that ended with a handshake. First dates that ended with a hug. I've tried to end a first date with a kiss, to which she declined because she felt it was too soon. I've never ended a first date with a kiss, despite what some people say that you need to go for the kiss on the first date.

I'm weird because I actually prefer a girl who is kind of a *****. I like rude, blunt, straight-forward girls that will tell it like its. Haha something about that appeals to me, I don't know why. It's led me into some pretty unhealthy relationships (I'm a little more careful now that I'm older).
That being said, I feel like 19 year old me would've been crazy about that girl haha.
But as for that last bit, whenever a girl comes onto me that I'm not into I just bolt. Haha I'll make a dumb excuse like "oh wait my phones ringing hold up" and then I'll just leave.

 

[PacificBoy]

It depends.

I've had first dates that ended with a handshake. First dates that ended with a hug. I've tried to end a first date with a kiss, to which she declined because she felt it was too soon. I've never ended a first date with a kiss, despite what some people say that you need to go for the kiss on the first date.

Was that with the Chinese girl? If it was, even if she did harbour some liking for you, it's probably too soon for most Chinese. Kissing, hugging, touching, even standing close, are all considered very intimate gestures.

 

[enterthemadness]

Agreed 100%

Oddly enough, I had one of those "outright rejections" that, while all my friends called her a "*****" for how she responded to me, I actually was mildly relieved by it.

So long story, cuz I ramble: While I was in college, this girl that was in my department, I talked to her for the first time at one of the first department parties I went to. She is insanely attractive, however, her crazy was well documented. I'm not just talking crazy, I'm talking snorting cocaine in the bathroom before classes. I can say that NOW she's cleaned up (I think anyways), but at the time, she was a major druggie.

Well at this party, her and I ended up spending most of it together, and she flat out was telling me she was attracted to me and such and such. I was hesitant on making a move because I knew about her crazy / drug abuse, and wasn't sure if I wanted to get mixed up in that. So, I half assed an attempt to take her home - she was drunk, I asked her if she needed a ride home, she declined, so I went home on my own.

Well, her and I continued to hang around on campus together, she'd walk me to class and stuff so finally I told her "You know, I made a mistake the other night at the party that I'd like to rectify. I never got your number" To which she replied "I'm not gonna give you my number" and she followed up by saying "I'm not going to give you my number, because I'm not going to answer your call. And no, I won't take your number, because I'm not going to call you. I'm not going to waste either of our time by exchanging phone numbers with you."

My friends called her a ***** because of her bluntness, but I was kinda like "well, at least she was honest"



I've made out at parties with a couple girls that I didn't want to because it was easier to just make out with them for a bit than to say no. I'm a horrible person



It depends.

I've had first dates that ended with a handshake. First dates that ended with a hug. I've tried to end a first date with a kiss, to which she declined because she felt it was too soon. I've never ended a first date with a kiss, despite what some people say that you need to go for the kiss on the first date.

First dates ending on a handshake? you mean...like a interview?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Was that with the Chinese girl? If it was, even if she did harbour some liking for you, it's probably too soon for most Chinese. Kissing, hugging, touching, even standing close, are all considered very intimate gestures.

Yes, it was the Chinese girl.

And I knew it was nothing personal, due to communication lol. She explained that it was just too early, and that she hoped I understood. There was also the aspect that I knew it wasn't personal because her and I did have a very good time together, and there was other sorts of physical contact, including me touching her leg and her hair, or putting my arm around her, that she was receptive to.

And this was on the first date, so there was still a 2nd date, so obviously she wasn't too turned off haha.

Until my car apparently.

And as such, there hasn't been a 3rd date.

Although, there's been weird, sporadic communication recently.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

First dates ending on a handshake? you mean...like a interview?

Ha. Yea, well.

I went on a date with another Chinese girl I met off eHarmony, and we started the date with a handshake, and ended the date with a handshake.

Probably why she freaked out when I tried to kiss her on the 2nd. Buuut... at the same time someone who's as reluctant to physical contact as she clearly was (displayed in other ways on our dates also) probably isn't for me, because speaking of the love languages from earlier, my biggest one is probably physical touch. Even in a non sexual way, I am a very physically affectionate person.

 

[enterthemadness]

Yes, it was the Chinese girl.

And I knew it was nothing personal, due to communication lol. She explained that it was just too early, and that she hoped I understood. There was also the aspect that I knew it wasn't personal because her and I did have a very good time together, and there was other sorts of physical contact, including me touching her leg and her hair, or putting my arm around her, that she was receptive to.

And this was on the first date, so there was still a 2nd date, so obviously she wasn't too turned off haha.

Until my car apparently.

And as such, there hasn't been a 3rd date.

Although, there's been weird, sporadic communication recently.

Details?

 

[PacificBoy]

Yes, it was the Chinese girl.

And I knew it was nothing personal, due to communication lol. She explained that it was just too early, and that she hoped I understood. There was also the aspect that I knew it wasn't personal because her and I did have a very good time together, and there was other sorts of physical contact, including me touching her leg and her hair, or putting my arm around her, that she was receptive to.

And this was on the first date, so there was still a 2nd date, so obviously she wasn't too turned off haha.

Until my car apparently.

And as such, there hasn't been a 3rd date.

Although, there's been weird, sporadic communication recently.

I don't know whether I should encourage you but Chinese girls, at least the conservative ones, like persistence in a suitor. It shows their 'sincerity' or something. Like an effort has to be made to win them over.

 

[enterthemadness]

Ha. Yea, well.

I went on a date with another Chinese girl I met off eHarmony, and we started the date with a handshake, and ended the date with a handshake.

Probably why she freaked out when I tried to kiss her on the 2nd. Buuut... at the same time someone who's as reluctant to physical contact as she clearly was (displayed in other ways on our dates also) probably isn't for me, because speaking of the love languages from earlier, my biggest one is probably physical touch. Even in a non sexual way, I am a very physically affectionate person.

Please don't hate me...much, but when I read that, I thought 'Like a big teddy bear?' and busted out laughing.

 

[Mr.M]

Hmmm I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you and I meet the same kind of girls haha. Or our approach is different.
If I see a girl I'm attracted to I make a concerted effort to get to know her, and engage her in some sort of conversation to find some kind of common interest. I usually then make a move once I feel comfortable around her. If she gives me some sort of run around and I feel there's still some sort of chance that she's attracted to me I'll persist, but I'm referring to when she's clearly not interested. That's when I'd prefer a no.
It's a small quibble, but a quibble nonetheless. As I said before I get why that's tough so I'm not going to fault girls for not doing it.

Ah naïveté at its finest. And how exactly did I imply that I have some radically different approach that you are diametrically opposed to? It's all part of the process in building a bond. You have to continue to work at it.

You have to feel each other out and probe each other for strengths and weaknesses. A direct "no" means forever closing a potential avenue. It's rarely going to be black and white. It's rare when a woman comes to terms with the facts of a situation. She is going to overthink things and cloud the facts, hence a guy that isn't assertive enough will be met with the "I'm busy that day" excuse, because frankly that guy didn't make his intentions clear enough. And when you are too aggressive, she could assume "this guy wants in my pants" just as easily as " this guy is honest and committed to this."

Sometimes it doesn't even matter what your true intentions are. To the girl, it's about how she feels and the vibe you give off. The honest intentions aren't relevant if you are being perceived in a completely different way.

I will say this. In any job interview, you have to show that you really, really need that job, almost to the point of desperation, without actually getting on your knees. So I'd say make your intentions clear early on with the right attitude corresponding to that. This is going to get the girl to be up front and stop BSing about what she really thinks. Instead of getting the, " you are an extremely qualified candidate, but are not perfectly suitable for our current needs at this time, but HR will keep you in mind", you're more likely to get the "we like your attitude hence your lack of relevant experience is not a deal breaker and (the hiring manager) will be in contact with you" reply.

So your best bet is to be aggressive. Always make your intentions as clear as possible and leave little ambiguity. Don't play her game right back and dance in circles. Time is the most precious resource you have. Once you make your intentions clear, the ball is in her court. Pull the plug when you can no longer be any more forthcoming than you've been.

 

[Flint Marko]

Ah naïveté at its finest. And how exactly did I imply that I have some radically different approach that you are diametrically opposed to? It's all part of the process in building a bond. You have to continue to work at it.

I don't know if you're intentionally trying to come off as condescending, but it isn't appreciated.

You have to feel each other out and probe each other for strengths and weaknesses. A direct "no" means forever closing a potential avenue. It's rarely going to be black and white. It's rare when a woman comes to terms with the facts of a situation. She is going to overthink things and cloud the facts, hence a guy that isn't assertive enough will be met with the "I'm busy that day" excuse, because frankly that guy didn't make his intentions clear enough. And when you are too aggressive, she could assume "this guy wants in my pants" just as easily as " this guy is honest and committed to this."

Sometimes it doesn't even matter what your true intentions are. To the girl, it's about how she feels and the vibe you give off. The honest intentions aren't relevant if you are being perceived in a completely different way.

I will say this. In any job interview, you have to show that you really, really need that job, almost to the point of desperation, without actually getting on your knees. So I'd say make your intentions clear early on with the right attitude corresponding to that. This is going to get the girl to be up front and stop BSing about what she really thinks. Instead of getting the, " you are an extremely qualified candidate, but are not perfectly suitable for our current needs at this time, but HR will keep you in mind", you're more likely to get the "we like your attitude hence your lack of relevant experience is not a deal breaker and (the hiring manager) will be in contact with you" reply.

So your best bet is to be aggressive. Always make your intentions as clear as possible and leave little ambiguity. Don't play her game right back and dance in circles. Time is the most precious resource you have. Once you make your intentions clear, the ball is in her court. Pull the plug when you can no longer be any more forthcoming than you've been.

I agree with most of this up to a point. I understand towing the line between being intentional and desperate; once again I'm saying that whenever I get a transparent excuse from a girl who is clearly uninterested but wants to let me down easy, I don't keep pushing for the time being. Because in her eyes, she's giving me a 'soft no'. That's the sort of run-around I was referring to.

 

[Mr.M]

I don't know if you're intentionally trying to come off as condescending, but it isn't appreciated.



I agree with most of this up to a point. I understand towing the line between being intentional and desperate; once again I'm saying that whenever I get a transparent excuse from a girl who is clearly uninterested but wants to let me down easy, I don't keep pushing for the time being. Because in her eyes, she's giving me a 'soft no'. That's the sort of run-around I was referring to.

Well how you perceive a "soft no" is really not her problem so much as how she wanted that "soft no" to be perceived. It could mean a flat out "no" or it could easily mean "try harder " or "I need more info first". It's up to you to break through this defense mechanism.

The only solution is to gauge her subsequent responses in conversation and use that info to see if it is worth pushing harder. You need to get the hard data out of her. Don't assume a soft no means no 60% of the time for every soft no a girl gives to a guy at any given time. Focus on the specific situation at hand and get the information you need.

 

[Flint Marko]

Well how you perceive a "soft no" is really not her problem so much as how she wanted that "soft no" to be perceived. It could mean a flat out "no" or it could easily mean "try harder " or "I need more info first". It's up to you to break through this defense mechanism.

The only solution is to gauge her subsequent responses in conversation and use that info to see if it is worth pushing harder. You need to get the hard data out of her. Don't assume a soft no means no 60% of the time for every soft no a girl gives to a guy at any given time. Focus on the specific situation at hand and get the information you need.

We're on the same page, I understand what you're getting at.