The Dark Knight Rises You Have My Permission To Lounge - Part 1

[shauner111]

Let's say 30 minutes includes a couple of R-rated bat fights + proper setups that explain some of these subplots. More motivation for Lex. A heroic/happy scene involving Clark. What then? WB might be behind this chopped up version and "only darkness". It sounds too optimistic but what the heck.

 

[DACrowe]

P.S. I don't remember which review, but one compared the Bat-Pod sequence in The Dark Knight to the Batmobile's big scene scene in Batman v Superman and it is night and day. It really does sum up when one filmmaker is interested in classical storytelling (even within the confines of a chase scene) and practical effects, and the other is all about CG, action overload. Except the reviewer didn't mention that Batman is gunning down people with bullets and missiles. Snyder added that too.

This movie is making me angry the more I think about it.

 

[BatLobster]

Thanks for the review DACrowe, bummer you disliked it so strongly.

That's the thing too. What if this movie deserves a second chance at a RT score from scratch once the director's cut is released this summer? Maybe it's the studios fault for releasing THEIR cut in theaters.

Idk if you can blame the studio for that necessarily. Even Zack said that he was adamant about keeping the movie around the 2:30 mark, he may have just not been able to reign it all in. Though, I'm not entirely convinced a 3 hour version of the movie would've led to better reviews. Cause that's now expecting critics to love being in Snyder's world for 3 hours, when 2:30 already seems like a miserable experience for them.

I think the best case scenario for WB right now is the movie makes a lot more money than MoS, which becomes the narrative moreso than the bad reviews. Then Suicide Squad is a MONSTER critics/fans/box office hit. Then BvS the movie slowly gains appreciation in the fanbase overtime, particularly with the extended cut.

They might just be able to squeak by here, but a lot of things have to go very right from here on out.

 

[The Joker]

So I saw this movie tonight. Nolan's legacy is safe for a while from utter fan backlash. I assumed it would at least be competent, but Batman v Superman is a complete mess on the scale of The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

The storyline does not make much sense, there is no pacing or rhythm to the narrative, scenes begin and end, characters appear and disappear, plot threads are introduced and not explored again (most egregiously and already infamously with the "Knightmare" sequence. The Doomsday stuff is a CGI cluster****.

As for the Batman--Affleck is competent. He proves the internet haters wrong. But his Batman is so mishandled by Zack Snyder. Not only is he a killer, but he is also a walking, talking embodiment of the Bat-fascist not from "The Dark Knight Returns" but from "The Dark Knight Strikes Again." His manifesto for why he does what he does during the Superman fight is sickening.

This thing is a massive disappointment that will have ramifications for the DCEU. I really wish Zack Snyder was not making Justice League, but here we are. It really is so frustrating.

I'm seeing a growing number of reviews compare it with ASM 2. Not a good sign.

 

[Man in the Suit]

It's too late to abort and reboot. Justice League starts shooting next month. They're in this for the long haul whatever happens. This is potentially a really big problem for them but, honestly, they should have reconsidered jumping straight into this solely on Snyder's shoulders. It was never the wisest move.

Honestly, I don't think it's too late. The plug was pulled on Miller's JL a week before filming, and the Burton/Cage Superman movie had millions of dollars worth of sets and costumes built. WB has never been afraid to cancel.

 

[AnneFan]

I'm up for a pitch black, grizzled Batman pushed to the extreme.

 

[shauner111]

So I saw this movie tonight. Nolan's legacy is safe for a while from utter fan backlash. I assumed it would at least be competent, but Batman v Superman is a complete mess on the scale of The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

The storyline does not make much sense, there is no pacing or rhythm to the narrative, scenes begin and end, characters appear and disappear, plot threads are introduced and not explored again (most egregiously and already infamously with the "Knightmare" sequence. The Doomsday stuff is a CGI cluster****.

As for the Batman--Affleck is competent. He proves the internet haters wrong. But his Batman is so mishandled by Zack Snyder. Not only is he a killer, but he is also a walking, talking embodiment of the Bat-fascist not from "The Dark Knight Returns" but from "The Dark Knight Strikes Again." His manifesto for why he does what he does during the Superman fight is sickening.

This thing is a massive disappointment that will have ramifications for the DCEU. I really wish Zack Snyder was not making Justice League, but here we are. It really is so frustrating.

Can i ask you what he says to Superman about why he does what he does? Spoiler tags though, for everyone else. You should probably put the other bat spoiler in tags too.

 

[DACrowe]

Can i ask you what he says to Superman about why he does what he does? Spoiler tags though, for everyone else. You should probably put the other bat spoiler in tags too.

Ok.

Spoiler

He exclaims (and I'm paraphrasing here), he believes the world is pointless and meaningless because his parents got gunned down in the street for no reason. The only way to have order is through force. It's basically a Triumph of the Will "might makes right" argument. It's really shocking that is in this movie and is again some TDKSA level craziness.

 

[Brother Jack]

As for the Batman--Affleck is competent. He proves the internet haters wrong. But his Batman is so mishandled by Zack Snyder. Not only is he a killer, but he is also a walking, talking embodiment of the Bat-fascist not from "The Dark Knight Returns" but from "The Dark Knight Strikes Again." His manifesto for why he does what he does during the Superman fight is sickening.

Spoiler

Just so we're all on the same page, Batman doesn't kill anyone in DKR. There are some panels that are intentionally ambiguous but he is not out in the field mowing people down. He's brutal, he's violent, he's cynical, but the moral line still exists in him.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm seeing a growing number of reviews compare it with ASM 2. Not a good sign.

It is very comparable to The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Both have way too many subplots and scenes that begin and end with no logic except that they set up more movies down the road.

Batman v Superman on one hand might be slightly better because Lex Luthor is a better villain than Electro, and Snyder has a visual flair that Marc Webb does not. but even though all the images are pretty, and Hans Zimmer has a nice score, it is just as loud and unsatisfying as the last Spider-Man movie. Maybe more so in some ways with how it treats the titled characters. Only Wonder Woman comes off looking likable and she doesn't do anything until the third act.

Oh yes, the third act. Doomsday appearing here is just as random as when Gwen Stacy and especially the Green Goblin (for all of 5 minutes) show up at the end of Amazing Spider-Man 2. Both films also then try to rush through some major comic book lore in a very unsatisfying manner.

 

[DACrowe]

Spoiler

Just so we're all on the same page, Batman doesn't kill anyone in DKR. There are some panels that are intentionally ambiguous but he is not out in the field mowing people down. He's brutal, he's violent, he's cynical, but the moral line still exists in him.

I was referring more to The Dark Knight Strikes Again and All-Star Batman. Also, I mean more how he justifies his war on crime than his methods. The methods are just more of the Zod neck snapping carrying over to another character. Ironically, Superman seems to be the one more concerned with human life this time around.

 

[Brother Jack]

I was referring more to The Dark Knight Strikes Again and All-Star Batman. Also, I mean more how he justifies his war on crime than his methods. The methods are just more of the Zod neck snapping carrying over to another character. Ironically, Superman seems to be the one more concerned with human life this time around.

Yeah, I get what you mean. I was just putting that out there as a general statement because DKR will probably be used as justification for that aspect of this Batman, if it hasn't already. And the comparison doesn't hold water. Miller's later Batman stuff is another story, but those stories suck anyway.

 

[shauner111]

So he's Rust Cohle in a batsuit?

 

[The Shape]

Ok.

Spoiler

He exclaims (and I'm paraphrasing here), he believes the world is pointless and meaningless because his parents got gunned down in the street for no reason. The only way to have order is through force. It's basically a Triumph of the Will "might makes right" argument. It's really shocking that is in this movie and is again some TDKSA level craziness.

What? When does he say that? And to who?

 

[DACrowe]

What? When does he say that? And to who?

[blackout]It is his whole speech he has while swinging Superman around on a rope like a yo-yo right before the whole "Martha" bit at the end of the big fight.[/blackout]

 

[shauner111]

Yeah but does it seem like he changed his ways at the end?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

"Transcends the genre" blah blah blah....
"Marvel's flavor of the month" blah blah blah....

Snyder's words were too big for his own good, especially for someone with his track record.
And man, did I want this movie to show Snyder actually improved, it's a real shame he was not as big as the words he uttered.

Spoiler

Anyone seen this dumb tweet?

I love how it kept the certified fresh icon with the rotten score.

 

[titansupes]

What? When does he say that? And to who?

Spoiler

When he's dragging Superman around, he says something like "Your parents probably told you that you were here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson... When they were dying in the gutter".

 

[titansupes]

Anyway, I just got back from the theatre. I need time to process, like everyone else... It's esoteric when it comes to JL references. It's choppy. It's bizare. It's dark. It's so so so so dark. Superman acts more like Superman than he did in MoS in many ways... Yet, in many other ways, he's the least Superman he's EVER been in live action. Same goes for Batman.

I had a significantly better time watching this than I ever have MoS.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

What's your score for MoS? And what's your current score for this?

 

[BatLobster]

Interesting reaction titansupes. 9 hours to go for me.

 

[titansupes]

Interesting reaction titansupes. 9 hours to go for me.

I literally have no idea what my reaction is.

I was always a skeptic, was getting TASM2 vibes off everything, saw the RT and participated in the fallout like everyone here, and walked in expecting to hate it... But it's just so big, weird, interesting at times genuinely emotional and-- of course-- spectacularly bombastic that... I loved it! I walked out with a huge grin on my face, smiling ear-to-ear. And it was from the opening few minutes I knew "Holy crap, I think I may love this?!"

And yet... Boy, the character choices in this thing are baaaad, as are several other aspects of it. Not the least of which being the tone being far, far too dark for anything involving Superman... or hell, even the Batman.

I have no idea. Maybe when the freshness of it wears off, the crap said will overwhelm the rest for me.

But I'm so seeing this again ASAP.

 

[titansupes]

What's your score for MoS? And what's your current score for this?

Too complicated a question just to give ratings for me.

Went in thinking it was going to be the best Superman movie ever, thought the critics were just being biased or some crap--

I consider myself mixed on MoS. First viewing, hated it and felt numb and deflated afterwards. Second viewing (exactly two weeks later) I had a good time and thought "Oh, not THAT bad". Third time (bluray) and subsequent viewings I just settled into this profound indifference toward it-- A bunch of good elements, but no execution. The script, the pacing/structure and direction etc. The usual stuff.

It's a 5/10, give or take half a point or so depending on the day.

This time? Wasn't looking forward to it, in spite of loving the characters and ONE of the trailers (and I even had concerns then). Thought the critics were absolutely right and Snyder screwed the pooch...

Walked out loving it in spite of a whole bunch of ****. I can't rate it yet, sorry.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah but does it seem like he changed his ways at the end?

Spoiler

He changes his mind about Superman. But he is still killing people, so not really.

 

[titansupes]

Spoiler

He changes his mind about Superman. But he is still killing people, so not really.

Spoiler

He's still straight-up murdering folks, yeah. But I think/desperately hope his "Men are still good" and the events surrounding it give some indication that he's turning around.