6.15 Freak - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[AgentPat]

LOL! And you looked just like me when you typed that up!

Ooooo....

<- Models cute new cheekbones and darker hair.

I could get used to this.

You are pretty dead-on when it comes to my snarky responses though. I'm too predictable, I guess.

Nah. Well... maybe just a little. I do try to see things from both points of view contrary to the opinions of a few hundred disgruntled victims of MY snarky 'tude, however.

...I think the biggest mistake TPTB made with the Lana character is putting her in a position of always being in conflict with Clark, our beloved leading man and hero to all. That's just a lose/lose position, especially when they run it into the ground.

Exactly. This might explain why (all of a sudden?) those with Lana gripes really liked her in Freak. Well duh! She's back to being nice to Clark and actually doing her best to protect him. She just earned her get-out-of-jail free card with a large portion of the fandom [raises hand]. Have you read DeKnight's blog? It's like Knight and day.

Most of us did I think & Clark even told Lana that he was heading to Star City so that Oliver Queen can help him out

I saw the "Q2" tag numbers, but didn't read the rest of the plate. My first thought (before Clark mentioned Oliver) was that it might be through Lionel. Oliver makes more sense given his covert hero team, but it did make me wonder how big the Justice League association actually is. I thought Oliver and Co. were still out of the country. Who exactly did Clark call?

 

[04nbod]

I saw the "Q2" tag numbers, but didn't read the rest of the plate. My first thought (before Clark mentioned Oliver) was that it might be through Lionel. Oliver makes more sense given his covert hero team, but it did make me wonder how big the Justice League association actually is. I thought Oliver and Co. were still out of the country. Who exactly did Clark call?

i assume oliver has a mobile phone or at least a secretary and he arranged it from abroad. money=power

 

[AgentPat]

i assume oliver has a mobile phone or at least a secretary and he arranged it from abroad. money=power

It's not so much his being able to arrange the operation, it was his being able to be contacted to begin with. How long (in show time) has it been since the team left? Would Oliver be reachable on that island, and would he be carrying around a cell phone while on a covert operation - wearing his Green Arrow costume? LOL

Yes, I'm picking nits. It's a hobby.

Here's a better one... When Chloe sent Jimmy away from the Talon so she and Clark could play X-Ray-Me, she told him to find out everything he could at the bowling alley. He said he'd call her when he got there. Next thing you know, Jimmy's back to the Talon just as Clark is helping Chloe bandage up her heat vision wound. What happened? Did Jimmy forget his car keys?

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I don't know how much more detailed it needs to be. I respect and understand that you (and a good percentage of people) do see the character in those terms, but to be honest (and really not trying to insult you.. but you asked), I find that view very short-sighted and a little pandering to the masses.

honestly, you know me and I've never cared what the masses thought. But even you've got to admit that Lana's had some bad moments since late season 4 and her behavior especially towards Clark has been somewhat suspect.

I think it's a far more fair perspective to have some understanding of why Lana's character is the way she is, and to allow for her to have been a little angry and frustrated.

Outside of Clark not feeling comfortable telling her certain things, how has she really been wronged by the guy? Other than that she's ripped into him for keeping "secrets and lies" which she herse;f has done just as much of.

Granted, it has been carried on FAR too long, so I do agree with the general sentiment of your comments, just not the specifics. I think the biggest mistake TPTB made with the Lana character is putting her in a position of always being in conflict with Clark, our beloved leading man and hero to all. That's just a lose/lose position, especially when they run it into the ground.

and I agree with that. Clark Kent is always infallible in my eyes and that of most fans, so anything or anyone who takes issue with him, takes issue with us. She was never goijng to win anyone's sympathy taking issue with Clark.

I also always found it odd that most women viewers seem to sympathize with Chloe as the plucky underdog, but I always found Chloe to be a far more fortunate character in terms of personal support, family and friends, than Lana.

I truly dont know what most women viewers think. My wife finds Chloe annoying and wishes Clark would just tell her to "go to hell." (her actual words LOL)

 

[ariellem]

...I think the biggest mistake TPTB made with the Lana character is putting her in a position of always being in conflict with Clark, our beloved leading man and hero to all. That's just a lose/lose position, especially when they run it into the ground.

I also always found it odd that most women viewers seem to sympathize with Chloe as the plucky underdog, but I always found Chloe to be a far more fortunate character in terms of personal support, family and friends, than Lana.

...Closure my ass.. for who? Clark, or for Chloe?

First item: very true. Our hero is in love with Lana, so naturally it would be nice for that to be requited eventually. When she's snippy or snarky with him, he rarely seems to deserve such poor treatment. Does he like to play the martyr or is he just not realizing it? Feel sorry for him either way; wish he'd snap out of the reverie and find someone who really loves him for who he is, and not for who they think he is.

Second item: see previous, but substitute "Chloe" for "hero" and "hero" for Lana". Also, Chloe seems much more deserving of Clark's affection because she's been his helpful, trustworthy friend for a long time, not just someone cute he has admired from afar. Chloe is the underdog when it comes to Clark - because the pretty, nice, popular, "sweet" girls seem always to have guys after them - even when they seem to go for real weirdos/creeps. The the odder, brainier, less "perfect" ones don't necessarily get the guys they're pining for, except perhaps in shows like these. Oh, and Chloe tends to try to figure things out for herself or at least make a big effort to do so. Until recently, Lana was mostly her magazine-cover caricature. Also, it's a very romantic theme to have our hero looking far away for love, only to find out his soul mate was right there all along: the girl he has already confided in, the best friend who becomes more than that. Hence rooting for Chloe instead of Lana... At least until Clark and Lois are ready for each other...

At the same time, now that Chloe and Jimmy are together I don't really want her cheating on him with Clark because I think C&J make a really cute couple. Now I feel bad for Clark, for missing his chance with her. Lana may or may not come back - she's coming around and waking up about Lex, and she's beginning to see Clark as more than "just a farmboy" but fate may yet intervene. Lois is looking interesting, but things there are still pretty early.


Third item: hadn't thought of that. Good point. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure.

 

[avidreader]

At the same time, now that Chloe and Jimmy are together I don't really want her cheating on him with Clark because I think C&J make a really cute couple. Now I feel bad for Clark, for missing his chance with her. Lana may or may not come back - she's coming around and waking up about Lex, and she's beginning to see Clark as more than "just a farmboy" but fate may yet intervene. Lois is looking interesting, but things there are still pretty early.

I dont feel bad for him having missed his chance with her, because he never felt that way about her. Not once in 5 1/2 years did he ever express that he was in love with Chloe. He was in love with Lana, Chloe was his best friend, and as much as I admire the close, confident, trusting relationship they have with each other, Chloe really only fell into that place by default.

On the Lana issue, I never really had a problem with her wanting to know Clark's secret, to me it was the way she went about trying to get him to open up. She was always on the defensive and brought the issues between them back to herself.

I dont believe she ever tried to put herself in Clark's place and see things from his P.O.V. Her understanding or reasoning for him not telling her was because he didnt trust her or he thought she would see him differently. She's only young so I cant fault her, but the issues always seemed to revolve around her, and I dont think she ever really tried to connect with him and at least try to understand the predicament he was in.

What we're seeing with her now, is someone that is more mature. She still doesnt know exactly what the deal with Clark is, but she's changed her perspective and starting to realise that what he's doing is for the protection of others.

She's probably also learned through Lex, that everyone tells lies and has secrets. The reasons for keeping those lies and secrets is what's important.

 

[Webber]

Lex has powers as well doesn't he?

 

[Jack O Lantern]

He has a higfh white blood cell count or something, meaning he can never get sick and saved his life when Lionel posioned him in Season 3

 

[Riva]

Really liked this ep. It was very tense throughout, and kept up the right tone.

I'm marvelling at the dysfunction of the Lex/Lana relationship. ''promise on the soul of my unborn child.'' Yikes! I'm already feeling for Lana once this thing implodes/explodes. Yes, she got into the relationship willingly, and was an adult, but wow, does she have any idea what Lex is capable of?! And if she does have some remote clue, is she now bound, in a way, because of the pregnancy. That's even more tragic.

Lana was really great in this. I loved her scene with Clark. I was fearing after Tobias told her that Clark was normal, that she'd give up on her gut instincts, but she didn't. And I also loved her observations about meteor affected people, in general. Lana is on a real path to discovery, both self and for those around her. It's a troubled, messy time for her character, but it could potentially be one of great importance in her life.

Clark was a great friend to Chloe throughout the ep. And then some people claim he's not there for her enough, I never get that sentiment. Anyway. loved his scene with Lana too. He was truthful about the meteor freak thing, but the rest, he didn't exactly try very hard to negate Lana's line of thinking, I thought. Which is great, because it fits with what I noticed in 'Trespass' too, when Lana told him, ''you're always watching over me'' and Clark replies, ''for the same reason you're always watching over me.'' (or something to this effect) So while Clark may not be telling Lana himself, maybe now he's not going to go out of his way to stpp Lana from finding out herself either. Maybe a part of him now wants her to know now.

Great ep for Lex too. Chilling! Chloe should watch her back!

Speaking of Chloe, I didn't understand why she was urging Clark to actually attend Lex and Lana's wedding. I mean, I understood I guess, but I didn't agree with the reasoning. Anyway, this was a messy ep for her too. Having to accept being something/solmeone she's always investigated, and spoken about in a fairly de-sensitized way sometimes. She's really freaking out (no pun intended) about possibly being meteor affected right now, but she'll probably come to accept it soon, And realize that she, and what she does, her behavior, is what makes her, not some hitherto not used, latent powers. I'm sure Clark will be supportive. She should get through this. Unless Lex has some nefarious plans for her.

Very interesting.

 

[Serene]

First item: very true. Our hero is in love with Lana, so naturally it would be nice for that to be requited eventually.

As it was in Mortal, Hidden, Aqua.. Having scenes with the two of them that weren't focused solely on angst and secrets was a relief for eveyone.

Feel sorry for him either way; wish he'd snap out of the reverie and find someone who really loves him for who he is, and not for who they think he is.

Kind of like Lana in Reckoning? Knew who he was - still loved him like crazy.

Also, Chloe seems much more deserving of Clark's affection because she's been his helpful, trustworthy friend for a long time, not just someone cute he has admired from afar.

People tend to slide under the rug the part about Chloe totally betraying him to Lionel because she was pissed off when she saw him kissing Lana, although she'd known since they were kids how he felt about Lana. Nice friend. Oh, and the offer of a job at the D.P. might have made the betrayal just that much easier.

I KNOW she would never do that again, and that she's proven her loyalty to Clark repeatedly since then.. but what annoys me is how she's always given a free pass on that one, and Lana is constantly busted for simply wanting her boyfriend to not lie to her.

Chloe is the underdog when it comes to Clark - because the pretty, nice, popular, "sweet" girls seem always to have guys after them - even when they seem to go for real weirdos/creeps. The the odder, brainier, less "perfect" ones don't necessarily get the guys they're pining for, except perhaps in shows like these.

See.. the reverse discrimination thing really bothers me. The fact that Lana was sweet seems secondary to the fact that she's pretty. Hating on a character because she's "pretty" is as bad as hating on one because they aren't.

Also, it's a very romantic theme to have our hero looking far away for love, only to find out his soul mate was right there all along: the girl he has already confided in, the best friend who becomes more than that. Hence rooting for Chloe instead of Lana... At least until Clark and Lois are ready for each other...

I get that, I really do, but it's pure fanon from the Chlark contingent, IMO. Woulda, shoulda, coulda... but it just isn't show canon for Clark to suddenly realize that Chloe is his soul mate, as much as he does love her.

My personal fanon is that Lana ends up as Clark's soul mate in this version of the tale, and not Lois - but I know that ain't gonna happen, so I just hope the transition from Lana to Lois is done really well. I do feel better that I like Lois a lot more now than I did when she was first introduced.

I just want our guy to be happy. :heart:

Now I feel bad for Clark, for missing his chance with her.

He didn't miss anything. He had the opportunity to be with Chloe for years, and opted not to. Kal's comments to Chloe in Crimson proved that Clark has always been aware of Chloe's lingering feelings for him. He just chose to ignore them and remain just friends.

Ariellem - I hope I don't come off as being nasty. I'm glad to hear a reasonable explanation from someone about the whole Chlark thing and I appreciate you explaining it.

 

[AgentPat]

I dont feel bad for him having missed his chance with her, because he never felt that way about her. Not once in 5 1/2 years did he ever express that he was in love with Chloe. He was in love with Lana, Chloe was his best friend, and as much as I admire the close, confident, trusting relationship they have with each other, Chloe really only fell into that place by default.

I see your point, but I also believe Ariellem's is equally valid...

...it's a very romantic theme to have our hero looking far away for love, only to find out his soul mate was right there all along: the girl he has already confided in, the best friend who becomes more than that.

Yes! I too believe this is one of the biggest reasons why so many fans "root" for Chloe. The writers set up the star-crossed lovers angle in the PILOT with Chloe denying her interest in Clark to Pete, and both her and Pete noting Clark's apparent interest in Lana. Chloe's had an unrequited love for Clark for YEARS. From Chloe's POV, it's very sad, and I think audiences respond to that [raises hand.]

Speaking of Chloe, I didn't understand why she was urging Clark to actually attend Lex and Lana's wedding.

Chloe said it was so he could send a message that he was moving on. Makes sense, if just in a self-help kind of way. Even Martha suggested to Clark the best thing he could do at this point is to leave Lana alone. He can be her secret guardian angel as much as he wants, but he closed the door on their relationship long ago. All he's ever wanted was for her to be happy and he can't even have carnal relations with her. Strike no 1. She's also pregnant with Lex's child, which morally prevents him from interfering as he would believe the child belongs with its own father and mother. Strike no 2.

I don't see any ulterior motives on Chloe's part for suggesting Clark send a message to everybody, including himself. The writers have wisely dropped the subplot of Chloe addressing her feelings for Clark. Notice how all of the scenes eluding to such introspection were cut from the episodes they were teased, both in spoiler form as well as the official episode descriptions themselves. I think the writers are making a HUGE effort to move away from "Chlark," which is the best thing they can do now, IMHO. I think any romance between them at this point would be detrimental to their relationship, just like romance between Clark and Lana would be pointless and counterproductive to their progress as individuals. Clark needs to move on, completely, hence Chloe's suggestion.

 

[Serene]

On the Lana issue, I never really had a problem with her wanting to know Clark's secret, to me it was the way she went about trying to get him to open up. She was always on the defensive and brought the issues between them back to herself.

I dont believe she ever tried to put herself in Clark's place and see things from his P.O.V. Her understanding or reasoning for him not telling her was because he didnt trust her or he thought she would see him differently. She's only young so I cant fault her, but the issues always seemed to revolve around her, and I dont think she ever really tried to connect with him and at least try to understand the predicament he was in.

What we're seeing with her now, is someone that is more mature. She still doesnt know exactly what the deal with Clark is, but she's changed her perspective and starting to realise that what he's doing is for the protection of others.

She's probably also learned through Lex, that everyone tells lies and has secrets. The reasons for keeping those lies and secrets is what's important.

Nice post, avid. I agree with much of what you are saying about Lana. I hope that when she does eventually find out, we have a scene where she verbalizes to him that she didn't look at things from his perspective enough for too many years, and that she's sorry.

 

[Serene]

I see your point, but I also believe Ariellem's is equally valid...

Yes! I too believe this is one of the biggest reasons why so many fans "root" for Chloe. The writers set up the star-crossed lovers angle in the PILOT with Chloe denying her interest in Clark to Pete, and both her and Pete noting Clark's apparent interest in Lana. Chloe's had an unrequited love for Clark for YEARS. From Chloe's POV, it's very sad, and I think audiences respond to that [raises hand.]

Chloe said it was so he could send a message that he was moving on. Makes sense, if just in a self-help kind of way. Even Martha suggested to Clark the best thing he could do at this point is to leave Lana alone. He can be her secret guardian angel as much as he wants, but he closed the door on their relationship long ago. All he's ever wanted was for her to be happy and he can't even have carnal relations with her. Strike no 1. She's also pregnant with Lex's child, which morally prevents him from interfering as he would believe the child belongs with its own father and mother. Strike no 2.

I don't see any ulterior motives on Chloe's part for suggesting Clark send a message to everybody, including himself. The writers have wisely dropped the subplot of Chloe addressing her feelings for Clark. Notice how all of the scenes eluding to such introspection were cut from the episodes they were teased, both in spoiler form as well as the official episode descriptions themselves. I think the writers are making a HUGE effort to move away from "Chlark," which is the best thing they can do now, IMHO. I think any romance between them at this point would be detrimental to their relationship, just like romance between Clark and Lana would be pointless and counterproductive to their progress as individuals. Clark needs to move on, completely, hence Chloe's suggestion.

I luv ya, Pat, but we simply will never see eye to eye about these things.

*hugs anyway*

 

[chosen1]

IGN rated this episode as a 9.1




"alonzo what the hell are those a**holes thinking" -- Roger
TRAINING DAY

 

[triplet]

I luv ya, Pat, but we simply will never see eye to eye about these things.

*hugs anyway*

I understand your perspective, more than the Chlarkers.

Clark simply has never shown any longlasting romantic interest in Chloe. They've had just given some hints from time to time to tease the fans, I think, and to keep that ball up in the air.

The triangles are important, it adds the dramatic tension but it's red herring in the case of Chloe...

 

[AgentPat]

I luv ya, Pat, but we simply will never see eye to eye about these things.

Which part? LOL I think it's best for all characters to move on. Chloe's got something very special with Jimmy now, and any backpedaling by her pining for Clark makes her look like an idiot. Lex IS the villain of the story (LOL!) and Lana will discover that soon. She'll break up with him and finally figure out the big picture with Clark (whether she does it on her own or he tells her). Clark and Lana will be able to put their roller coaster pasts behind them. Lana will accept and love Clark for who he really is, but she'll also realize her desire for a nice "normal" life would be virtually impossible with him - unless he ignores his own calling to become the man the world so desperately needs. When that time comes, she'll let him go. Ultimately, such a selfless act of love will elevate her among SV fans that have heretofore only seen the me-me-me side of her personality.

As to the Chloe thing, I wholeheartedly agree with Ariellem. It IS a literary cliché to have the hero of the story eventually find that his "soulmate" was right under his nose the entire time he was looking elsewhere for her. Sometimes that soulmate even plays cupid, trying to match the hero up with somebody else because neither see in each other what's been there all along. The difference for this story however is that Clark's soulmate isn't Chloe OR Lana, and that's what makes the tale so much fun to watch unfold.

BTW: I'm not a "Chlarker."

 

[avidreader]

I think the writers are making a HUGE effort to move away from "Chlark," which is the best thing they can do now, IMHO. I think any romance between them at this point would be detrimental to their relationship, just like romance between Clark and Lana would be pointless and counterproductive to their progress as individuals. Clark needs to move on, completely, hence Chloe's suggestion.

As much as I would love to see Clark in a trusting and loving romantic relationship, I agree with you. At this point in time it doesnt serve any of the characters well.

Nice post, avid. I agree with much of what you are saying about Lana. I hope that when she does eventually find out, we have a scene where she verbalizes to him that she didn't look at things from his perspective enough for too many years, and that she's sorry.

Thanks and yeah.

The triangles are important, it adds the dramatic tension .

LOL! Truer words were never spoken or written in this case.

 

[avidreader]

As to the Chloe thing, I wholeheartedly agree with Ariellem. It IS a literary cliché to have the hero of the story eventually find that his "soulmate" was right under his nose the entire time he was looking elsewhere for her. Sometimes that soulmate even plays cupid, trying to match the hero up with somebody else because neither see in each other what's been there all along. The difference for this story however is that Clark's soulmate isn't Chloe OR Lana, and that's what makes the tale so much fun to watch unfold.

BTW: I'm not a "Chlarker."

But you are sounding dangerously close like a Chloiser.

 

[Serene]

just like romance between Clark and Lana would be pointless and counterproductive to their progress as individuals.

This is the primary point of contention. And yes, I KNOW I'm in a very small minority on this. I don't think it has to be counterproductive at all. I think they could go there, and make it work, without having it be the focus of the show. The whole "once they get together it's over" Moonlighting b.s. is a copout. IMO.

Clark and Lana will be able to put their roller coaster pasts behind them. Lana will accept and love Clark for who he really is, but she'll also realize her desire for a nice "normal" life would be virtually impossible with him - unless he ignores his own calling to become the man the world so desperately needs. When that time comes, she'll let him go. Ultimately, such a selfless act of love will elevate her among SV fans that have heretofore only seen the me-me-me side of her personality.

And because I think THIS^ will and should happen at the end of the series, having them together up until then will only make it that much more bittersweet for both characters, not to mention dramatic in terms of the overall series.

 

[ariellem]

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful comments and analyses. I think we can all agree that this show is especially enjoyable BECAUSE it offers the potential for seeing things so many different ways. We don't all agree on which way we'd like it to go, which way we think it should go, or which way we think they'll make it go, but we're all interested enough to discuss it.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda is part of life. We all have our preferences there. The characters in the show have each shown preferences. As you've said, it's their maturing process that is letting most of them get past looking back to put things at rest and look to their own futures.

All but Lex... He's stuck in the loop, and that's why he's going downhill.

 

[LostSon88]

IGN rated this episode as a 9.1




"alonzo what the hell are those a**holes thinking" -- Roger
TRAINING DAY

I don't pay attention to ign.

They even gave Hydro an 8.

 

[Cmill216]

IGN rated this episode as a 9.1

I don't pay attention to ign.

They even gave Hydro an 8.

Pretty darn accurate scores, for me.

 

[LostSon88]

Meh...its all relative.

I thought Hydro sucked.

 

[WompuM]

it seems that chloe is going to have some sort of eye power. lex said keep an eye on her. then they zoomed to chloes eye, then to lexs eye.

 

[triplet]

I don't pay attention to ign.

They even gave Hydro an 8.

I liked hydro, but I grade on a five point scale...

I gave it a 4.5, which might be analagous to a 9.

Pretty darn accurate scores, for me.

Yeah....

Meh...its all relative.

I thought Hydro sucked.

I thought it was rose above the material and was loads better than it could have been.



But I liked Freak a lot too, it also rose above the material. Good acting, better than average directing, although I think Rosie didn't get the best shot coverage...